RockOm

By Trevor Harden, Trevor@RockOm.net

Since forming in 1985 as a band of middle school students, the rock quartet known as Live has grown to become one of the most popular and enduring alternative rock acts of the past two decades. They gained massive mainstream success with their sophomore breakthrough album Throwing Copper in 1994 and have since gone on to sell more than 20 million CDs worldwide.

Live frontman Eddie Kowalczyk is currently on an acoustic tour called Open Wings, Broken Strings with Leigh Nash of Sixpence None The Richer and Art Alexakis of Everclear. He is also working on a rocking new solo album to be released in spring of 2010 (details and mailing list at eddieklive.com).

Eddie sat down with RockOm's Trevor Harden to discuss his spiritual journey, rediscovering the Bible, the power of performing acoustically and more...

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Trevor: Since Live's first album, Mental Jewelry, you've always allowed depth and spiritual truth into your lyrics. That album came out when you guys were very young so was there a catalyst that started you down that spiritual path? Can you speak about where that longing for something deeper came from?

Ed: Sure. I was baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic but never really got into it much beyond the routine of occasional church going and the formalities of the religion, never really digging that deeply into it as a child. Then as a teenager, I had a natural tendency to dig a little deeper than what was handed to me as a kid, in terms of spirituality and religion. When I was about 16 or 17 in high school I noticed that I was really interested in meditation and seeking Truth and a deeper meaning to my existence. I ended up wandering into a metaphysical bookstore that was near where I lived one day and saw a book by J. Krishnamurti called You Are the World; I bought it on a whim. It ended up being a book about questioning conditioning. He put everything into question in terms of what we accept as true or real and why we do so. It was maybe the first time I did that - to look at the ideas and beliefs I held about God and Truth and ask myself if they were accurate and what I was getting from it.

So that started my questioning which then led into years of meditating and reading. I've always been an avid reader of scripture and philosophy and never went to college so that was kind of my education. In the mid-1990's I met Ken Wilber and became really good friends with him and read his book called A Brief History of Everything which was a major watershed opening of my mind. Then about four or five years ago I did something called the Big Mind project with a man named Genpo Roche, a Zen master who developed a piercing kind of Zen questioning process. Since then I've come full circle by re-investigating the Bible from a metaphysical point of view - reinterpreting scripture in a way that relates to consciousness. That has been the main focus of my life for the last four years. It's definitely not a type of Christianity that people would recognize as typical or dogmatic; it's about the furthest you could be from fundamentalism but nonetheless Christian in nature. I'm really discovering the Bible for the first time in terms of unlocking its potential to teach us about reality.

Alongside all of that, it's music all the time. Music and songwriting is an extension of that search and has given me a lot to think about. It's been a fount of inspiration for me throughout the years and people seem to dig it.

Trevor: What are you finding in the life and teachings of Jesus that you weren't finding elsewhere or that you're finding unique?

Ed: It's unique in it's power, unique in it's breadth of influence. But you have to get away from looking at it as just a moral code and dig deeper into the language of the Bible and I'm interpreting it as it relates to consciousness itself or being itself. One of the simple ways that I see the power in it is every time the Bible says God or Lord or Christ is to relate that directly to consciousness itself, which is ever present and intermingling with your own being at a very deep level. So that unlocks an interest in prayer and meditation that was there but is now even more driven to a deeper place, understanding that as we touch that deep level that our life becomes the fruitage of that. We're happier, our relationships become more harmonious... "you shall know them by their fruits" stuff starts to happen. There's an extra sparkle in my eye and a smile that wasn't there for a while by ucovering that because of the depth of this prayer and practicing going to that place where we all become one. There's a very powerful silence there and it really reveals a lot.

As a musician and artist, you can't really ask for more than that. I come out of these periods with incredible inspiration and want to sing about it. Being able to go full circle and pick up the Bible again has been very powerful for me because it was a book that I really just didn't understand in a way that meant much to me for years. It's a sort of a coming home, but in my own way. It has been really, really exciting and powerful.

Trevor: You're currently offering the free download of your song "Forever" on eddieklive.com. It's a beautiful acoustic version of the song with the great line, "The darker the night, the brighter the dawn." Can you tell us a little about your inspiration for this song?

Ed: Again, coming from rediscovering the Bible and words like faith, that particular lyric is trying to express that when we see our ideal - the best case scenario, the most loving scenario, the fullest life, God or Truth - to keep our attention there in spite of what is appearing as an obstacle or limitation. As you keep the faith and keep your attention on that ideal and get more and more stronger doing that you find that the negativity leaves. You discover you've moved past the limitations and closer to the ideal in ways that are beyond imagination. Everyone has experienced that but this was just putting it into a context that is hopefully inspirational to people. It's something that has had an incredible impact on my life.

Trevor: All musicians talk about that mystical thing that happens in a live setting where there's a unity and connection you have with the audience. I'm sure it happens at both the loud rock concerts with the band as well as in the quiet, acoustic solo performances that you're currently doing. Can you talk about how the texture of that is different in both of those settings?

Ed: It's really different. Look, I love to rock. I've been in a great band for years and love to turn up the amps and have all the lights going and the big PA. But there's a part of you that sits by yourself in a room and writes a song that doesn't get to be on stage then. He has to recoil back into a little place of being there, but not really. Stripping it down and making it an acoustic, intimate setting really allows that guy to come forward. I had really kind of missed him. You obviously have that when you start out, when the crowds are smaller, but as the band gets bigger and your art succeeds, it becomes a persona that is designed to fill these big spaces. With this "Open Wings, Broken Strings" tour, the idea was to strip that down and put artists on the bill that were also ready for those types of things in their music. There's a fullness about the show that everyone is sharing in and the crowds are just loving it. A lot of them have said to me, "I never knew it could rock that much or be that compelling." That trips me out because that's where the music comes from, but I guess yeah, if you've never seen me acoustic you wouldn't know. This is just another view and it's really neat.

Trevor: In that setting you can talk about the meaning behind the songs and share the background a little bit. Are there any of your songs that you're particularly enjoying "clearing the air" about? Is there any song that you really enjoy telling the real story and meaning behind because it has maybe been misunderstood in the past or is perhaps a bit cryptic?

Ed: You know, I keep them that way a lot. I actually just did an introduction to "Lightening Crashes" the other night and said if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me what this song meant, I'd have a lot more dollars. I basically stepped off it again by saying that I have a feeling about what it means but people have received such different impressions about that song in lots of good ways that I don't want to influence that. I've said it's about reincarnation for me at periods of time in my life but I still tend to back away from that because there's something about the openness of it - letting it be interpreted in the way people receive it - that is really powerful.

www.eddieklive.com

By Tom Crenshaw, Tom@RockOm.net

Carly Simon needs no introduction. Since 1971 her music and hits such as "That's the Way I've Always Heard It Should Be", “Anticipation”, “You’re So Vain” and many others have been part of the soundtrack of millions of lives around the world. Her 1973 album No Secrets rocketed to #1 on the US album charts and held firm for six consecutive weeks, eventually going Platinum and receiving a Grammy Award nomination. One song from that album, "You're So Vain", was also nominated for Song Of The Year and Best Pop Vocal Performance and as of 2008 was listed at #72 on the Billboard definitive list of the Top 100 songs from the chart's first 50 years.

In 1988 Carly won an Academy Award, Grammy and a Golden Globe for her song “Let the River Run” from the Working Girl motion picture soundtrack. Only one of two artists to ever accomplish such a feat (the other being Bruce Springsteen for "Streets of Philadelphia"), Carly hasn’t rested on her laurels, instead she has continued to write not only more great songs, but film scores and children’s books as well.

Now Carly has a new album out entitled Never Been Gone which was produced by her son Ben Taylor on his Iris Records label. Never Been Gone is a collection of Carly’s hits, re-recorded this year with minimal backing instrumentation, allowing a refined, sultry, autumn sound to emerge. This fresh take on classic favorites also includes two news songs where we hear Carly continuing to evolve and grow as an artist. RockOm recently had the extraordinary opportunity to sit at length with Carly to discuss her new album and also explore music and healing, chant, meditation, the beauty of the human voice, prayer in its various forms and much more.

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Tom: Your new album is entitled Never Been Gone and is out now on Iris Records. I think I speak for millions saying through your music I never felt you had been gone. The great songs on this album are timeless, yet simplistically and beautifully refined. Which songs surprised you the most in how they spoke to you after you re-recorded them?

Carly: I’m glad that you said that because I don’t want anybody to think this is a compilation. There have been quite a few compilations of my albums but this is really a reinterpretation as if I were singing in a foreign language. I limited myself to certain instruments such as not allowing myself to use drums except for on one song. My hits were always marked by my love of the huge tom-tom fill [laughs] and since we didn’t have any of those fills I feel much more exposed on this album. On songs like “Loving You is the Right Thing to Do”, I’m not awash in production. I also feel very exposed in “Coming Around Again". Certainly in the original the emotion came across but not in the way it does on Never Been Gone. When I listen to this album it affects me more, hurts me more, elates me more; it gets back to the core of what the emotion is of the song. When I was listening and mixing "Coming Around Again" it seemed very much like a chant in a way. It sort of moves you vibrationally sometimes like when you sit and chant. I’m not sure which organ it affects - whether it the spleen, the heart, or the liver - but there’s something about it that puts you in a “hum” mood.

Tom: I agree. It’s a liberating listening experience. I imagine it must have been the same for you doing these songs in an entirely different way.

Carly: Well, yes it was and certainly my son Ben [Taylor] had a huge hand in that. He wanted to know how I originally wrote them and then he wanted me to move from there, to take my toys and do them bare and stark. You know, it’s not that I’m not very much helped by Ben and David Saw and [other musicians on the album] but there’s something so different about this album. We’re all older; we’re all approaching it in a different way. There are some new musicians who were never in on the songs before. David Foster certainly put a very new spin on “Let The River Run.” I find that song can be sung in any way. It’s a hymn, so it cannot be sung as a sultry love song, but in terms of whether it’s chorally done or [performed] by one voice or by a duo or trio; it’s very versatile. We sang this in a beautiful and simple choral way, although there are aspects of my solo voice that come through. But it’s largely a guitar-based song; it doesn’t have the thrust of the original version that I did for Working Girl.

Tom: Since we’re talking about “Let The River Run”, your Academy Award-winning song from Working Girl which became somewhat of an anthem after 9-11, what do you think it’s going to take for us to find the “New Jerusalem” and create more harmony between each other on this planet?

Carly: Oh, what a good question. I think that if we all chanted at the same time, everyday, from country to country to country, without any time zones interfering that we would all be vibrating on the same plane, which has always been a great healer. Music has always been used to heal because it makes people feel a lot better. Not all music does; there are certain songs, intervals and chords which don’t make you feel very good. Pythagoras freed the minds of his disciples from the worries of the day by playing music, which would calm their minds and would also produce deep sleep and prophetic dreams. In the morning he would banish the lingering effects of sleep by playing stimulating melodies and rhythms. Major chords will do one thing to your mind and body and minor chords will do something else. Suspension chords will do something else. Then there’s the Devil’s interval which does something. So music and its properties are just fantastic the way they can alter your state of mind.

Tom: I think that’s why we come back to our favorite music over and over again when we want to recreate that original experience.

Carly: Yeah, when you think of it the ancient Hebrews or the prophets foretold the future through chanting and the sister of Moses was said to have immense visionary powers which were conveyed through chanting. Shamans cured diseases and mental anguish by coaxing the evil spirits into leaving their victims through the powers of chanting. There have been all kinds of enlightenment through music, but healing the sick is also a major [attribute]. There are so many curative powers in music. I think that music is the strongest of all the arts in terms of being able to cross all the boundaries and being able to do so many things, especially vibrationally to the body. Looking at a piece of art is very effective and impressive, but I don’t think that it does the same thing if you’re not also the participant. There’s something about the way music brings people together in a communal way; it's such a terrific thing. And it seems to me that the most powerful thing about church or temple for me was always the music.

Tom: Do you use music in meditation to relax? It’s widely known that you have some issues with stage fright and it’s ironic that you create this beautiful music and yet you have stage fright before going on. Does music help you to calm yourself?

Carly: [Laughs] I would love to be on stage and perform music - just the vocal aspect of it - with a whole lot of other people. I would love to sing in a choir or as some of the Irish folk musicians do; they’ll sing while being held from the back by another singer, and that person will be held by another person, and that person by another so that it’s like a chain of singers who are holding each other and they feel each other vibrationally. I would love that. When I’m singing by myself I feel incomplete a little bit. I wish that I could actually feel the warmth and the vibration of another human being right next to my body while I was singing.

Tom: Well you certainly have the vibration of millions of fans that you’ve performed for over the years supporting you. I hope you feel that at times.

Carly: Oh I do, I do! I love it when the audience sings with me. What I don’t like is the very stillness of a room and then just my voice. That’s what sort of scares me. I jump at the sound of it, it’s so solo. I think there are some people who really feed on that and feed on the complete solo-ness of their voice as a lone instrument in the dark. I like the togetherness of the community singing.

Tom: Let me ask you about the creative process. I know that besides being a musician you’re also a very successful film arranger and children's author. Can you explain where all the magical melodies and lyrics, the ideas and words for your books and music come from?

Carly: Oh I have a thousand stories and as I was explaining to somebody the other day, I think I was born with a faucet in my mind. It’s always dripping a melody but there are other things that will be in the way of it. For instance, I’ll be talking to you and I won't necessarily be thinking of the melody, but as soon as I’m still again the melody will come. So anytime I want to tap into it I can and then I‘ll go from there. I go from whatever melody I’m given to a lyric that will seem to go with it or to a better melody or to a chord that I play on an instrument. There's always a starting place. It happened to be with my children’s book that the starting place was in telling my own children stories that I would be making up, because it would be easier to put them to sleep when the lights were out and I was not reading a book. So I would turn off the lights and I would make up a story. Everything that I write has to be very real to me or I have to be able to identify with it.

Tom: Who do you turn to musically for inspiration?

Carly: It’s usually classical music. To be specific I would say the music of Debussy, Poulenc and Gershwin, who's obviously not just classical but he’s the modern composer who I’m most attracted to in terms of melody. There are so many people in pop music and in jazz that it would be to hard to limit myself. If I go to my CD collection it’s almost impossible to chose one myself. It’s easier to turn on the radio and see what happens by accident. There’s always something that I’m fascinated and/or moved by.

Tom: Included in the new album is your song “Coming Around Again.” You write about coming back home to Martha’s Vineyard:"I know nothing stays the same / But if you're willing / to play the game / It's coming around again / So don't mind if I fall apart / there's more room in a broken heart." The music has changed this time around but the words still hold a simple truth that is unchanging about a space - in this case your home - which holds peace and serenity. Other than your home what sustains you when all else fails?

Carly: I think it’s prayer, in its various forms. It’s prayer, where I stay quiet and see whether I can hear the voice of God and how the voice of God comes to me. If it’s in the form of music, then there’s some kind of spiritual prayer which is more sacred than it is secular and that can be any number of things. There’s a requiem by Fauré I happen to love. My thing is I have to remember to [pray]. When I’m not being sustained or when I lose myself or when I’m angry or when I’m in the wrong space I have to remember I can click it off. I have to remember that I can pray if I choose to do so.

There are many things that are meditative for me. Painting is meditative; I love to paint. I love to garden and to look at my beautiful trees that I’m so lucky to have. My son’s music is just exquisite. I listen to that; I listen to the beauty of his voice. Just the beauty of the human voice is really something; it’s a meditation all of its own. The voice of my daughter… there are so many beautiful voices that I just love. My favorite tenor is Yussi Beurling and some of the beautiful music that he sang, just that voice in itself can pull me in a whole different direction, as can various pop songs. I listen to a lot of Motown, especially to Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye and Sam Cooke. And dancing... I would be a whirling dervish if I lived in that time. In fact, I might start a little group of my own right here in my apartment. [Laughs] That would be fun!

www.carlysimon.com

Photos by Amanda Borland

By Trevor Harden, Trevor@RockOm.net

To many, speaking out against sexual prejudice or using an occasional four-letter swear word is no big deal. When an artist with nearly a million career Christian albums sales and ten GMA Dove Awards under his belt does that as part of a major label release, however, people sit up and take notice.

Singer-songwriter Derek Webb has been known to many in the CCM scene for years having been a long time member of Caedmon's Call, the City on a Hill projects and also through his solo releases. His latest album, Stockholm Syndrome, is an honest - and often biting - foray into sexuality, the church, government and culture.

Stockholm proved so provocative, in fact, that Webb's record company removed the song "What Matters More" because of its explicit language, even though the powerful lyrics - in many's opinion - were both prophetic and appropriately used: "'Cause we can talk and debate until we're blue in the face / About the language and tradition that he's comin' to save / Meanwhile we sit just like we don't give a shit / About 50,000 people who are dyin' today."

Using smart marketing techniques, Derek whetted the appetite of his fans prior to the album's release by sending out a series of coded emails and tweets, directing people to a secret website featuring an elaborate alternate reality game.

This is a man who knows how to create buzz.

Because of this, some say his contentious lyrical content is solely for the purpose of attention-getting. Others believe him to be a powerful voice speaking out against societal and religious ills, taking on a set-in-its-ways Christian subculture. Derek himself, however, sees things differently. RockOm recently spoke with Derek Webb about Stockholm Syndrome, the controversy the album has sparked as well as his motivations for songwriting.

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Trevor: Since for Stockholm Syndrome you used some interesting marketing techniques as well as the way in which you are selling it - by using various tiers - I'm just wondering what your general thoughts are on where the music industry is right now, how the business models are changing and where you, in your opinion, think it's all headed?

Derek: It's something I think a lot about because more than ever this is the time for creative people to apply their creativity as much to the distribution of their music as to the making of it. So I try to really pay attention and stay up on whatever seems to be around the bend to see if there's any way we can harness it to our advantage somehow. Little by little the industry is coming around and they're starting to figure out the technologies that they originally thought were going to ruin them. They're finally starting to see that the revenue streams of the last thirty years are closing down. The money's never going to come in that way again, but there is money to be made if you can just restructure and unplug yourself from the matrix of the old way of thinking about revenue and music. The people who are hanging on to those old structures and fighting for them are the people who are missing the opportunity to the tune that many of them are having to close their doors. By the time it dawns on them what they could have done it'll be too late because they have put all the money that should've gone into research, development and new technologies into lawyers who basically sue their audience, alienating all of their customers.

The most basic part of it is that anything that is digital can and will be free; that's the bottom line. In my opinion, I think it's going to be a lot more common for music to be free over the next five years and basically be a loss-leader for exclusive content, touring and artifacts that enhance the music itself. There are all kinds of ways to get creative about that. People will then start to employ what Chris Anderson (editor for Wired Magazine) calls "freemium," where you give people the content itself and then if they want more - more exclusive, enhancements or higher-quality - then those are the types of things on which you can make the same, if not better, money than you could the old way.

The thing I've learned from it the most is that more significantly than getting money out of your fans today is getting information and meaningful connection with them. If you can get that then you're not going to have any problems making money. Money is not really the problem; the problem is getting fans to trust us as media providers in general. If you can get their trust - and along with that you can make connections with them - then that's your long term asset. I would just as soon give all my music away if it gets more people on the radar for whom I have information. I would have a career for the next ten years if I wanted to at that point. That needs to be the posture for at least the indie community, who should see the value in that. Unfortunately indie artists on the whole aren't known for their marketing skills.

Trevor: It's no secret that you've said some things on this album that have challenged the status quo in many circles and bucked the system a little bit. It took courage to step out like that and say what you really felt needed to be said, so I was wondering if you could talk a little about how you felt emotionally both before and after this album's release. Did you feel an urgency that inspired you to speak up? Were you scared at all to go out on a limb as you did?

Derek: I wasn't really nervous about it because I don't think about that sort of thing while I'm making records or when I'm conceptualizing. I've said this before but it's the best answer I've got: I see it as my job to be the same thing as any other artist, which is to look at the world and tell you what I see. That's the only agenda that I have. Beyond that I don't have any kind of plans or way of thinking I'm trying to convert everyone to or conversations I'm trying to get people to have about issues. I'm not trying to do any of that at this point. I'm just trying to do the very most basic job that I have and that is to look around me, to filter what I see through my particular personality and framework and to tell it to you as honestly and immediately as I can. This is just what comes out.

I wasn't thinking "Who's going to hear this?" or "What are they going to think about it?" These were just the songs that got written. I don't always understand why particular songs get written at particular times or why they wind up being about certain things and not about others. I don't feel like I do a lot of editorial work in my creativity; I write twelve to fifteen songs a year and I record every one of them. Of those, they mostly come out pretty fully formed. I just sit down and write them and I don't fully understand how that process works; it's more of an art than a science.

But if this had been calculated and about me making a statement about these particular issues and wanting to engage a particular community with these questions, then yes, I probably would've been really nervous about it because I would've been thinking about the trouble I was going to get into. I'm never nervous trusting my instincts.

Trevor: I'm sure you've seen the blog posts and the message boards, of people talking about the themes and content of your album. It certainly has sparked - if not controversy - at least a conversation. What are your feelings about how it's being received?

Derek: Man, I'm just thrilled it's being received at all. I'm thrilled people are finding it these days. I'm way down in the niche in terms of what I do. I know it's not music for everybody; I've got a really small tribe of people that I make music for who seem to resonate with the music I make. I can pretty much depend on those people and I hope they can depend on me. But beyond that I'm just really thrilled that people still care enough about music to listen and to give themselves over emotionally to it and get bent out of shape and get all pissed off and write a bunch of blogs. Honestly I'm thrilled that one way or another people are willing to engage with it and that people didn't just toss it off. Some people probably did and that's OK too.

Again, if I had a particular audience I was trying to speak to and say something specific to, if that had been part of my agenda for making the record, then I probably would be a wreck right now. I've heard a handful of comments from people who maybe even support me or agree with me saying that it's a real bummer that the people who should be listening to it won't be either because of the style or the content or the language - that I'm shooting myself in the foot. See the thing is, there's nothing I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not trying to use my music as a tool for anything beyond itself; I'm just trying to make cool records.

Trevor: Our website explores the bond between music and spirituality, independent of particular faith or religious traditions, and so we have a very diverse audience. Since your past work has been mostly in the Christian music industry circle, I'm wondering if Stockholm Syndrome has been received outside of that circle and if so what the response has been?

Derek: Yeah, it has been. It's been really encouraging actually that a handful of different communities seem to be picking up on it and wanting to get behind it and support it. Personally that's gratifying because whatever message is there seems to have gotten across to the right people. We've had splashes of support from here and there from folks who probably would not have supported what anyone might call "Christian music" before that. That's how a lot of what I've read starts - someone will be writing something and say, "Well, hell has frozen over today because I'm about to recommend to you a Christian music artist." But it's never that simple. Those kind of categories don't mean anything to anybody other than marketing people who are trying to simplify demographics and make you buy stuff.

It's the oldest adage in the book at this point but I just don't believe in "Christian music" or "secular music." I mean there are Christian and secular people who make art but all art reflects the framework of the person who made it. In that way the worldview of every artist is stamped on every piece of art they make. Now I'm no different than anybody else. I'm a follower of Jesus so you're going to see the fingerprints of that from time to time in my music. There are certain seasons in my career where I've taken a little more liberty to talk about the frame or the grid itself that I'm looking through. Here in the last so many years I've been more in a season of looking through that grid and telling you what I see beyond it. I'm at liberty to make both kinds of music as would any artist with any kind of belief.

Trevor: Hearing you say that is so refreshing. People don't usually believe Christian musicians can write music as observation as opposed to being for some influential purpose. Why can't a person have a particular faith and create music without an agenda?

Derek: What a novel idea, right? Art suffers most when someone is trying to use it as a tool to do something beyond just be great art and have intrinsic value as great work. I'm at a point in my career that I just want to do great work. I want to try to do honest work and be a trustworthy artist. There will be a lot of people I'll lose along the way and that's OK because my whole career has been a cycle of self-sabotage, which seems to work pretty well for me. I lose as many as I gain each time around. The people I wind up with are people who understand me and who'll be forgiving their first time through a new record if it's something out of left-field. Maybe they'll want to stick around or maybe I'll lose some of those people and their friends join in. All of that is beyond my concern because that seems to operate outside of anything I can have any sort of influence on. I just try to trust my instincts, make the best records I can and hope that there are people out there that are going to hear about them, like them and come out to some shows. [Laughs] It's as simple as that.

LINKS: www.DerekWebb.com

NOTE: Please visit derekwebb.com to purchase the unedited version of the album. Edited (for explicit language) versions are available at all other retailers such as iTunes and Amazon.com.

By Trevor Harden, trevor@RockOm.net

"For we are gathered here to celebrate and explore the music of Winter,
the season of frosts and long dark nights."

So writes Sting in the liner notes to his latest recording, If on a Winter's Night..., a concept album centered on the darkest and most contemplative of the four seasons. What began as a suggestion to create a Christmas album has evolved into a collection of pensive songs - both original and borrowed - that survey that most spiritually reflective time of year.

Sting continues,

"Like all early creatures we seem pre-wired to recognize and respond to the polar archetypes of light and dark, of heat and cold as they are encoded in the rhythm of the days and nights and the perpetual cycle of the seasons."

And while most of Sting's popular work - if not lyrically, at least in tone - has rested more in the realm of light, If on a Winter's Night... plunges into the darkness and stays there for 50 frigid minutes, never budging from its stoic, frosty soundscape.

To get a sense of this album, one has only to look at the cover art: Sting walks alone in a snowy woods, accompanied only by his icy-whiskered companion named Compass. There is a silence that whispers from within the photo, only presumably broken by the sound of crunching snow collapsing beneath rubber soles. And this picture, in its simplicity, sums up the album perfectly, as if the audio from these 15 tracks had coalesced into a single image.  Both Sting and his marketing team have done a fantastic job "setting the stage" for this album, carrying out the concept and vision to its fullest potential: Pictures in the album's liner book include a heavily bearded and deep-eyed Sting, blustery landscapes, sweaters and coats, candle-lit living rooms and musicians in wistful meditation. Wintry words spill out from the pages of Sting's personal commentary such as mentions of "hot mugs of tea," scarves, ghosts and coal fires... he's certainly attempting to paint a picture. And he has, quite successfully.

PARALLEL STORIES

You could go so far as to say that a Winter-themed album that ignores the reality of Christmas would be in error, as the two have become so intertwined in Western culture. As the large portion of Sting's borrowed material stems from British and Scottish sources, it's no surprise that the album begins with a song singing the praises of Mary, the mother of Jesus. In fact the story of the "God-child come to earth" makes repeat appearances on If on a Winter's Night..., appearing also in the recordings of the 15th century German carol "Lo How a Rose E'er Blooming," the touching fable-song "Cherry Tree Carol," and beyond. Despite Sting's self-professed agnosticism, he shares that "the sacred symbolism of the church's art still exerts a powerful influence over [him]."

Don't for a minute believe this is a Christian-centric album, however. Alongside hymns singing the praises of "the root of Jesse" are hints of something more ancient, medieval, folksy, ritualistic, natural and even pagan. In his own words, Sting says that it was "important to draw parallels between the Christian story and the older traditions of the winter solstice."

Spiritually and metaphorically, Winter's Night draws you inward through sonic themes related to winter such as reflectiveness, introspection and stillness. In order to fully "get" this album and its overtly subtle tone, one almost needs to understand Sting's motivation:

"...there is something of the Winter that is primal, mysterious and utterly irreplaceable ... as if we somehow need the darkness of the winter months to replenish our inner spirits as much as we need the light, energy and warmth of summer."

He goes further, acknowledging that Resurrection and light are just around the bend as Winter soon makes way for Spring. In truth they are two sides of the same coin:

"We are reminded that there is light and life at the centre of the darkness that is Winter - or conversely that, no matter how comfortable we feel in the cradle, there is darkness and danger all around us."

THE SONGS

Those longing to hear a new offering supported by Sting's Fender P-bass, electric guitars, synthesizers and a trap set need look elsewhere for herein we experience the folk-inspired sounds of harp, classical guitar, Melodeon, cello, Northumbrian Pipes, and fiddle. Fans of the Sting who penned Brand New Day, Mercury Falling, Ten Summoner's Tales and the majority of the Police's material will have to be remarkably open to other styles of music in order to include this alongside their favorite of his albums. This is not because this latest release is less than his previous offerings, not at all, but rather that it is so extraordinarily different from them. If On a Winter's Night... was released on the Deutsche Grammophon label which is both appropriate and telling, for this collection of songs belongs more suitably alongside your classical CDs (or even his own 2006 album Songs from the Labyrinth) than it does next to your Peter Gabriel or Paul Simon discs.

Sting begins with "Gabriel's Message," singing "Most highly favored lady, Gloria!" over the gentle instrumentation of a nylon-stringed guitar, muted horns and tight vocal harmonies.  From there the album slowly and intentionally bubbles forward like a frozen-over brook, presenting classical and folk pieces including a Celtic begging song, a folk tune from Sting's home of Newcastle, a number from Henry Purcell's King Arthur, a reference to Schubert's Winterreise and more; as well as two original pieces, the beautiful "Lullaby for an Anxious Child" and a new arrangement of the previously recorded "Hounds of Winter."

CONCLUSION

If on a Winter's Night... is almost "application music," or music for the purpose of introspection, mood setting, or direct listening. It most likely shouldn't be considered for enlivening your holiday party with yuletide cheer and may not even be - if I may be so bold - for entertainment. Like most music with depth, it requires a certain conscious presence to fully appreciate and experience, coming to grips with it over time like slowly warming beneath a freshly applied sweater.

There's a mystery in the dark of winter that is both unsettling and strangely comforting, as if everything remains unanswered and yet is perfect as it is; If on a Winter's Night... resides in that mystery. It isn't music for everyone, nor will there be any signature Sting hit singles emerging from it, and yet for those brave enough to look within and meditate on what lies in the heart of darkness, it is a welcome companion to the bleak seasons, both in nature and in the soul.

"If I have a spirituality at all, it's about music. I play and I listen to music as if it really matters to my soul, to my eternal being." [Sting]

A round-table discussion with Shantala
By Tom Crenshaw and Trevor Harden

Benjy and Heather Wertheimer are simply two of the most amazing and dedicated artists RockOm has had the opportunity to meet. Both lead kirtan (sacred chanting) worldwide as the duo Shantala (sometimes as a trio with Brent Kuecker) with soul-stirring vocals, sacred lyrics and exotic instrumentation. Shantala has performed and recorded internationally with such sacred music luminaries as RockOm alums Krishna Das and Jai Uttal, as well as with Deva Premal & Miten and others. In summer 2008, they were named as one of the top "Wallahs to Watch" by Yoga + Joyful Living.

Heather Wertheimer is a singer, songwriter and guitarist who combines her special love of both music and yoga to lead devotional chanting for yoga workshops and spiritual gatherings internationally. Heather's debut CD with Shantala, Church of Sky, was named by New Age Retailer as one of the top ten albums of 2004. It has been aired on radio stations nationwide. In April 2003, she and Benjy released The Love Window, a beautiful and well-loved collection of sacred chants. In 2007, they released Sri, their second popular kirtan CD, and their first live CD LIVE in love was released in 2008.

Benjy Wertheimer is an award-winning songwriter, vocalist, composer and multi-instrumentalist (playing tabla, congas, percussion, esraj, guitar, and keyboards). Benjy has toured and recorded with such artists as  Krishna Das, Jai Uttal, Deva Premal & Miten, Walter Becker (Steely Dan), and virtuoso guitarist Michael Mandrell. He has opened for such artists as Carlos Santana, Paul Winter and Narada Michael Walden. A founding member of the internationally acclaimed Ancient Future world fusion music ensemble, Benjy also toured the U.S., Canada and Japan with renowned bamboo flute master G.S. Sachdev. He has studied Indian classical music for over 25 years with some of the greatest masters of that tradition (including Alla Rakha, Zakir Hussain, Ali Akbar Khan and Z. M. Dagar). Benjy's CDs receive extensive airplay around the world and his CD Circle of Fire went to #1 on the New Age radio charts in November 2002.

RockOm recently sat down with Benjy, Heather, Brent and Kelley Boyd (owner of Savannah Yoga Center in Savannah, GA) for an informal round-table discussion on kirtan, yoga, Eastern music, the evolution of kirtan and sacred music, and much more.

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Tom: Shantala just recently came from Bhakti Fest [a yoga and music festival in Joshua Tree, CA]. Tell us about your experience.

Benjy: It felt like a milestone that marked the beginning of a different level of engagement of people in this country with bhakti yoga. A lot of people were only half jokingly referring to Bhakti Fest as the Woodstock of kirtan. There's this critical mass that's being reached that is moving towards shifting the consciousness of a lot of people in this country. It was an incredible honor to be there. Bhakti Fest is a place where history is being made as far as bhakti yoga. We’ve been to a lot of yoga festivals with a lot of people present and the focus is very much on asana. In this case it was very clear the focus was on kirtan.

Heather: I don’t know how many kirtan artists where there. Some of them were well known, some weren't and some of the most well known artists weren't there. The feeling at Bhakti Fest was fantastic, so good natured, calm and friendly as well as peaceful and loving.

Tom: Yeah, we looked online and saw some photographs of the events and it seemed so intimate.

Heather: It felt personal.

Benjy: It sure did.

Tom: When and how did you two form Shantala?

Benjy: Probably as many people know us as Benjy and Heather as they do Shantala, but now that Brent is with us it really feels like we have a special kind of synergy that we’ve been able to grow over time. Now we’re writing chants together.

Tom: And Brent gets to help with Barkley [Benjy and Heather's dog].

Heather: Barkley is our inspiration.

Brent: Barkley does everything really. Everything is a manifestation of Barkley. We're just pawns. [Laughter]

Heather: We're just servants of Barkley. [Laughter]

Benjy: I was thinking I should change my name to Barkley-Das. [Laughter] It is quite interesting though, Barkley is a very important part of what we do because every day we are reminded of bhakti through him because his love is so absolute. I think there is something we can all learn through the love of a dog. It is really unswerving and truly unconditional. Secondly, very much what is at the heart of bhakti yoga for me is being in the moment and I can't think of anyone who is a better teacher of that than a dog.  It's [about] 'right here, right now'; not what's happening tomorrow, not what happened a few days ago. It's 'right here, right now'.

Brent: You know how dogs love you no matter what you've done to them? It's kind of the same way that Heather talks about when we're in kirtan that no matter what we think about ourselves while we're practicing kirtan Ma is always loving you no matter what, and when you get a glimpse of that you start feeling better.

Heather: We begin to focus more and more on the force of grace and everything that's holding us. It's so easy to step from your normal funky world of being lost in your thoughts and riding the ups and downs of your thoughts, your latest emotional swing and it's just one easy step to have a total awareness of grace with you. That's an important part of this practice that we're able to make this step into contact with a realm of beauty and sacredness and joy.

But back to your question - how did we get started in Kirtan? People just asked us to do it. I was doing some things as a singer-songwriter; that was an important part of my life. Benjy had been full time in music and had an extensive Indian classical background, so when we got together and I was teaching yoga we began to be very involved in the Anusara yoga community. Benjy played for savasana on the esraj for John Friend and John fell in love. The short story is John Friend exposed Krishna Das to Benjy's esraj music and Krishna Das invited Benjy to perform on his Breath of the Heart album. Krishna Das discovered Benjy also plays tabla so when Krishna Das needed a fill-in tabla player he called on Benjy to come to the Inner Harmony Yoga Retreat Center with John Friend. We did that for a couple of years. I just tagged along. I was a yoga teacher; I just wanted to do yoga with John and it was a bonus to be able to sing with Krishna Das. We would fill in when Krishna Das wasn't available and ended up doing music for savasana. Then people started asking us to chant and we had no idea… or intention to go down that path. Once we started, we fell in love with it.

Benjy: I feel in a very real way we were guided. It was almost like we didn't have a choice. We kept encountering circumstances starting with meeting John Friend back in 2000, going into this thing with Krishna Das and falling in love with the practice of kirtan completely, and finding place after place where that was the best way we could serve. As for my own religious background, I'm a Quaker, but I feel there's no dissonance between my Quaker roots and what I’m celebrating, especially from a Hindu-tantric perspective, which is the realm John Friend works in. There's this beautiful melding of [my Quaker roots with Hindu-tantric] and in the kirtan it’s a part of this celebratory element of yoga that's at the heart of a lot of the tantric practice.

It's quite incredible too that at this point, 32 years ago I started my practice of yoga but not asana yoga. Everyone thinks of asana right away when they think of yoga but my teachers, Ali Akbar Khan and Zakir Hussain would refer to it as nada yoga: the yoga of sacred vibration and sound. It's considered a very high yoga going back to some very ancient texts. In the process of learning from Heather when she was a yoga teacher and from John, I stated to see how this could all come together with nada yoga side by side with bhakti yoga in the kirtan practice. That's a very big part of what we always hoped to be able to share with people.

Tom: Benjy, you grew up playing classical music starting with piano?

Benjy: That's right. Yeah, my very first instrument starting at age five was piano. My parents tell me I was singing before I could talk. I played violin as well, my interest shifted, and I later started studying flamenco guitar.

Tom: How did your study gravitate towards Eastern Music?

Benjy: Well before I started studying piano my mother told me I used to always bug her to keep playing Babatunde Olatunji's Drums of Passion. She literally wore it out. I was very much into African drumming and by junior high school I was studying Afro-Cuban drumming. In my high school years I came into contact with Indian classical percussion and it just blew me away. I had never seen anything like it and I realize, particularly when I saw the one who was going to become my guru on tablas - Zakir Hussain - when I saw him play what he could do with these two little drums was way beyond what I could ever imagine. So I knew that's where I wanted to go. As soon as I could after high school I went out to California where Zakir Hussain was living so I could study with him.

Trevor: If Drums of Passion hadn't been made we wouldn't have anything to talk about! [Laughter] Because most every single person we talk with talks about how instrumental that album was.

Benjy: Oh, there's no doubt!

Heather: [Without Olatunji's influence] so much music would have never made it over to this part of the world probably!

Tom: What's the hardest thing for Western musicians to grasp about Eastern music?

Benjy: One of the things is cultural. In Western culture, music is seen as a diversion or a source of entertainment, whereas in Indian classical music it is a spiritual path. I think some people have difficulty finding ways to reconcile themselves with that and the expectation of the sadhana of that path is mind-blowing. As an example my guru in the raga side of things, Ali Akbar Khan, would play or practice music 14-18 hours a day over the period of decades. It's very hard for us to even imagine that level of sadhana in our culture. Part of it too is because there's a very different orientation; there's a way we have to make our way in the world, or I guess you could call it a renunciation of sorts because you have to renounce the world to a degree to engage in that level of practice. What's interesting is that it's not renouncing the Divine, in fact you are trying to engage yourself fully with that essence of sound, which Ali Akbar Khan did so beautifully, which Zakir Hussain and his father Alla Rakha (who was Ravi Shankar's tabla player) did as well. They embodied the essence of the soul of music because they focused so strongly on that.

Tom: Heather, what are the unspoken elements between musicians while you're performing kirtan? What transpires that is unspoken? How do you communicate with each other while you're performing?

Heather: Well, we've spent so much time together that we're basically joined at the hip. [Laughter] But I think that we have a common purpose as performing musicians in kirtan, which is we are supporting the energy of the group to move in particular directions, to help people have a deepening experience throughout the course of the kirtan. So we have an energetic wave that we're riding together and we're all supporting that wave. There are times that we want [the music] to move slow, deep and more inward and there are times we want [the music] to come into a much higher energetic state and we  know approximately when that is going to happen, but it's a little bit different every time. Musically, Brent takes his cues off of what I'm singing but occasionally we have an eye contact that we make that we know we're going to switch parts. I use that eye-cue;  Benjy and I just look at each other and we know we’re going to do another repeat. Occasionally I'll mouth one word to him but it doesn't happen very often. We're also very connected to each other. We've done this so much that we know what's going to happen and we all have a sense of where it needs to go and where it should go.

Tom: So Benjy, if Heather is entranced in a part and you know she is in a blissful state but you feel it may need to go in another direction, how do you judge what needs to happen and make a change?

Brent: You don't ever take the women out of her bliss! [Laughter]

Heather: No, he doesn’t have control of that. I do! [Laughter] But we do have subtle ways that we all push the tempo or slow down slightly.

Benjy: I have a deep sense of trust to Heather's connection this practice, so generally speaking I’m going to go with the flow that I feel happening there. That said, the degree of acceleration at any point is up to me; I'm driving it as the drummer in many cases and so figuring out where that next level  should be is kinda up to me…

Heather: Yes it is…

Benjy: …And these two follow me in that. Sometimes I'm leading the chants too. There's a couple of high-energy chants that I lead and I have to figure out where that energy is for me. It's a dance. The other thing is that if Heather is going into a blissful state it is almost always accompanied by a similar state on the part of those participating in the kirtan. They are really coming into this synchronized way of being with each other. They are really tuned in and Heather is tuning into a kind of energy… I know if she's going there the group is following in her wake and I don't want to mess that up. It's such a different mindset because of the participatory elements and because it is a co-creation in a very real way with the group present.

A lot of the kind of things you would see in a performance doesn't really apply [to kirtan]. There are times I want to bring in elements of Indian classical music - for example a tabla solo - or something that's played on the esraj that is mirroring a raga that I know well. Or if we have other great Indian musicians playing with us, which we're blessed to have sometimes, to give them a moment to completely shine out in the middle of the kirtan because to me it's all part of that same expression of divine sound and devotion.

Heather: Also, we all three have a talk every day about what we're going to do for our set list. We'll talk about that for a while and then sometimes we'll often end up changing it mid-stream. The other night we were thinking of keeping the kirtan more down-tempo, but when we got into the up-tempo part Benjy said, "Let's do another up chant," because that was going to serve the group better. So we all talk about it.  Anything you want to add Brent?

Brent: I think there's really one word and you touched on it a couple of times; it's all about service. I feel like, what can I do to serve directly first and foremost with what is happening with Benjy and Heather and us, as a whole, and the energy in the room? I usually play with my eyes closed so I'm mostly feeling the room as opposed to seeing the room. I feel like I can get a lot more information that way. See, it's like this… Kirtan is like a bliss-bus [laughter], no… no… dig this. Benjy is the drummer, as like the engine and the gas pedal; I’m the bass player so I'm the wheels, keeping it going; and Heather is the driver. Everybody in the room are the passengers and they're just singing on the bus. [Laughter]

Heather: That's a great way to put it! We’ll have to use that for our next tour, The Bliss Bus Tour. [Laughter]

Trevor: One of our "go-to" questions we ask a lot of people just to get their different perspectives is, "What is it about music that connects us with the Divine in a way that other things don’t?"

Benjy: There's a term that comes to us from an ancient text that embodies it completely: Nada Brahma, which is basically translated as Sound is God. The nada yoga is your effort to go so deeply into that ocean of sound, through music, that you connect with all the auspicious principles of the Divine in the music and it is considered in many occasions to be completely beyond words. The second part of it is that because music does not necessarily require words, the raw music itself, that vibration is something you can feel regardless of the language you speak in your day-to-day life. It truly is a universal language. You can evoke feelings in people at a very, very deep level almost instantaneously with music. For me, the highest compliment I could give anyone who does a soundtrack for a movie is that you don't notice it because it is so perfectly integrated with what is going on that it doesn’t stand out on its own. It's a part of an integral whole. In that way too, music can be a soundtrack for our love and devotion to the Divine.

Heather: I would add that when we’re making music it vibrates our whole body, it resonates inside of us. It resonates in the heart area and as you know, it also releases chemicals [and causes] interactions in the brain.

Benjy: There’s a wonderful book out called This Is Your Brain On Music that is actually from a neuro-scientific vantage point about what happens in the brain when people are engaged in either playing or listening to music. To grossly oversimplify it one of the points is there is no other activity outside of being engaged in music that engages more parts of the brain simultaneously.

Trevor: Speaking to what you just said about music engaging different parts of the brain and enhancing other activities, there is some debate about asana practice and whether or not you should accompany it with music. What are your general thoughts on this?

Heather: I’d like to get Kelley's [Boyd, owner of Savannah Yoga Center] opinion on that. Kelley?

Kelley Boyd: It goes right back to what Heather and Benjy were talking about which is the practice feels totally different when there is music playing. Sometimes some moments do call for no music. There's plenty going on internally. I think that music is a beautiful addition to an asana practice. You can engage people in a different kind of way with music in their practice depending on the songs that you play, the message you want to convey to your students. I've heard of stories where students listen to a particular kind of song for 10-20 years and then they heard it in a yoga class and they picked up on specific words and it really opens something up for them.

Heather: Brent teaches yoga as well. Anything you want to add about yoga and music Brent?

Brent: I don't use music, except for savasana yoga. For me I would love to have musicians in the room playing with me and reading the energy of the room, supporting what is happening. So often I find unless I've spent hours and hours on a play list it's not in sync with the mood or actions in the class that I am intending and feeding. It’s a personal thing. I don't want to be teaching something that is more introspective and have some rockin' music just because the play list didn't happen to sync up.

Benjy: One of the great blessings in our lives is that for a decade or so now Heather and I have been providing live accompanying music for John Friend's yoga classes with as many as 800 people in a class. He is like a conductor and we are this orchestra that needs to be able to stop on a dime. For example if he needs to stop and give a technical instruction we are happy to stop playing because it would be totally distracting. If the flow changes we need to be able to turn and completely shift that.

Tom: Where are you going as a group and as individuals? What does the future hold?

Heather: We have a really fun and meaningful focus coming up for our 2010 tour in many cities across North America. We’re going to be doing events that we're going to be calling "Unity in the Community" which means we're going to be bringing together different groups at yoga centers, different non-profit groups and church groups to work together to do fund raising for local and regional charity causes. We love doing fund raising events and helping others through our events. For example, we sold handmade African necklaces for about a year and raised $17,000 for Ugandan women and children. So it's really powerful what you can do in the course of your offerings.

Brent: I'd just like to close by offering one thing. What kirtan is and what we're doing is truly an experience of the heart because you don't get done listening to any kind of music and say, "Wow, that just made my brain feel good." You don’t hear that. People say they actually felt something [in kirtan]. We are transported into our heart and what we find there is good, blissful, amazing. What we can say by this on a universal perspective is that at the essence of our self and at our heart there is just goodness.

Heather: I agree and to add to your really good question Trevor about how music gets us closer to the Divine. I think part of it is when you come together with a common intention, as groups and as individuals, we can consciously create that experience together and it's beautiful. We're just opening a doorway into something that can sweep us along. It's really beautiful.

Trevor: And that communal aspect is representative of a Divine thing going on because it's bringing people together.

Benjy: For sure.

Heather: Absolutely. That's why it was so powerful at Bhakti Fest with 2500 people coming together with a common intention. I really believe it ripples out into the world.

Benjy: Can you imagine what it's going to be like in 10 years? I am really excited to see what is happening. Culturally as asana [hatha] yoga has taken hold here in this country and you see many styles represented many of them are very new even though some of the yoga practices go back 5000 years. There are new practices being invented every day.  We’re finding in kirtan a complete expansion of the definition of the term. That is happening in large part because of the melting pot culture that we're part of here in the States whereas someone [elsewhere] may not know how to deal with mantra or how to celebrate in kirtan but they totally resonate with reggae. It's like the opening of a doorway that many people might not have known and that's part of what we hope to facilitate in what we do. There are so many different kinds of kirtan now available for people. It's really exploding and I think it's a beautiful opportunity for more and more and more people to find that connection to the Divine.

LINKS:

www.shantalamusic.com

Shantala Amazon link to latest CD available on Amazon

By Tom Crenshaw, Tom@RockOm.net

Most formulas for success in the music industry don't include exiting the lime-light at the pinnacle of one's career, but Matt Malley (bassist and co-founder of the Counting Crows) did just this in 2004. Matt retired after 14 years with Counting Crows just as the band was celebrating an Academy Award nomination for their song "Accidentally In Love," which appeared in the motion picture Shrek 2 Soundtrack.

Matt now follows another path, one focused on the home-front and family. He's now a full time father and husband as well as a record producer, session bassist, ashram keeper and student of the Mohan Veena or Indian slide guitar. Matt is a student and friend of Grammy winner Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and when chance brings them together, is either learning from his music "guru" or recording Bhatt's guitar in his home studio at the family ashram.

Matt has also just released his first solo record titled The Goddess Within. As a longtime student of Sahaja Yoga meditation Matt has infused The Goddess Within with sacred sounds, rhythms and harmonies, but don't expect this collection to be a velvety venture into serene, mystical realms. Matt rocks out when he's blissed-off and proves higher states needn't be all sanctified-sounding. One can be on the edge, pushing the boundaries both cosmically and musically at the same time.

In this exclusive interview with RockOm Matt speaks about the reasons he left Counting Crows, Kundalini energy and Sahaja yoga, learning the Indian slide guitar, his debut album and his musical intentions for the future.

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Tom: You're an Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe-nominated songwriter and a co-founder as well as a 14-year member of Counting Crows. The question is, why does one leave a band as successful as the Counting Crows?

Matt: Good question. Actually it was fatherhood. But when my second boy was born in January of 2004 I just couldn't handle being a missing-in-action dad. My first one was born in 2000 and I missed the first three or four years of his life because we lived in hotel rooms out touring. That was really hard. So when the second child was born I lasted about another year and then I just had to get out and push the eject button. I haven't looked back. The money was good but money doesn't mean anything. We're still friends and the guys in the band are all like brothers, but I didn't need to be away from home anymore. It was grating on my soul and that's why I left.

Tom: How does something that you love so much turn into something you have to get away from?

Matt: When I first joined the band I wasn't married and wasn't a father yet so my life was better suited for touring and traveling like we did. I'm still a fan of ol' Adam; he's a great songwriter and that's why I stuck with him so long, but family came along and it outweighed my enthusiasm for being the bass player in Counting Crows. I didn't want to be the dad that comes home once every four or five months and visits for a couple of weeks and the kids don't know me that well. Even though the band was still fun, my life on the outside changed.

Tom: How did you get started into music?

Matt: When I was about seven years old a guy came to our grammar school and tested everyone in the class to see who had musical talent. He singled me out and told my parents that I needed to start taking piano lessons. I took classical piano when I was seven or eight and also went through trumpet and violin in the school bands through grammar school. That was my first exposure to music. Honestly, I didn't really like classical piano because it was kind of like typing. I had to memorize these pieces and I didn't feel it in my heart, I just had to memorize things with my brain. I wish I had stuck with it because classical music is an incredible art form.

Tom: When kids discover music for the first time and have the opportunity to play an instrument, especially alongside other kids, they discover something about themselves that's brand new. What did you discover about yourself through music that you may not have otherwise?

Matt: It was my first taste of collective awareness or collective consciousness. You're with a group and you all are achieving something harmonious at the same time. That was new to me as a kid... as I imagine it would be to any kid. [Laughs]

Tom: Tell us about your debut album The Goddess Within. How did that come about?

Matt: The lady on the album cover founded a type of meditation that I've been doing for over 20 years. Her name is Sri Matajii. She was born in the center of India in 1923 and is still alive today but is elderly and quiet and has stopped giving public programs. She's was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in the late 90s, though she didn't get it. [She teaches] a technique and a knowledge of the spiritual machinery that we're all born with. It's a universal truth and not from one religion; in fact it ties a lot of the prophets' teachings together. It involves an awakening of what's called the Kundalini or what in the Orient is called the Chi and it resides at the sacrum bone at the base of the spine. Sacrum is Latin for sacred, so whoever named the bone knew that it contained something. The Kundalini is regarded as the feminine aspect of divinity and so the Goddess within is kind of like my term for the Kundalini, the Goddess. The masculine aspect of God or spirit is in our heart as a spark called the Atman in India. The Kundalini is like a gas that rises up and unites with the spark, carrying it up to the fontanelle bone area at the top of the head. Fontanelle is French for fountain, so whoever named that area named it auspiciously as well. This teaching just connects a lot of the world's religions. Even in Christianity, the saints at Pentecost had tongues of fire coming out of the top of their heads but Christians have just seen that as a mystery.

In learning about the Kundalini, I've approached it like a scientist... no blind faith. Smart people don't just believe something that they're told; they have to find out for themselves. When the Kundalini is awakened you feel it as a cool breeze on the palms of your hands and out the top of your head. You could say that the central nervous system becomes integrated with the spiritual nervous system or the parasympathetic, the seven chakras. The knowledge that [Sri Matajii] teaches is really in depth. She's spoken to the Jungian Society and she's a Nobel Peace Prize nominee... you could say I'm a disciple of hers.

Tom: Did you ever get a chance to meet her in person?

Matt: Yes, a few times, but it was very formal. You don't just talk casually with her. I let her do the talking. Back in the late 90s I got to sit with her a couple of times. She knew I was in a rock band so the way she saw that was that I was helping bring vibrations into the music industry. She had asked me about Kurt Cobain who had killed himself a couple of years before. I remember responding, "I think it was drugs that made him do that." And she said, "I think he was frustrated." She asked about a lot of things related to music with me; it was very interesting.

Tom: I suppose she felt you could reach a lot of people.

Matt: Yes and by reaching them it doesn't mean preaching about her yoga. It's just that the presence of being out there puts vibrations into where you are. Wherever you put your attention, the Kundalini will follow.

Tom: So for this CD, did you go into meditation or prepare in some other way?

Matt: I didn't do any exercises or anything like that. We live in an ashram; in fact, I own an ashram with three buildings and our friends who do our meditation live here. We kind of live in vibration so I don't meditate or anything right before playing music. We meditate every morning at day break. The record was just done during the day somewhat spontaneously and when I felt good I would go work on it.

Tom: What are the intentions for this album?

Matt: Rather than clobber people over the head with my one practice, I'm hoping to continue to introduce spirituality to the Western world. I'm interested in Indian culture, the Hindu deities, the great religions of the world including Christianity, Mohammad was a great teacher... I'm just hoping to continue what a lot of artists are doing by introducing a spiritual outlook - without being religious - to the Western world.

Tom: You've expressed interest in Qawwali as well. How did you get interested in that?

Matt: I discovered Qawwali in the 90s and fell in love with it. It's a very aggressive Indian vocal style of singing. When I would do pilgrimages to India and I'd be at my Sahaja Yoga get-togethers, they'd often have Qawwali artists or bhajans or lots of Indian classical music and the Qawwali artists always stuck out to me. They would be almost frightening and wearing their matching hats; I almost consider it the heavy metal of Indian classical music. [Laughs] When I learned about the translation of the words, I was blown way. Qawwali music originated in what was Persia about 700 years ago as Sufi devotional music and has a connection to Islam but it's beyond just that now. I'm just a big fan of that art form.

Tom: You're also studying Indian slide guitar. We interviewed Debashish Bhattacharya last year when he was in Savannah, GA with Derek Trucks, Bob Brozman and Jerry Douglas. It's a difficult art to learn. How long have you been studying this?

Matt: It's really not easy at all. [Laughs] After ten years of learning it, I'm still on the tip of the iceberg. I know that when children start playing in India they'll be doing what's called the alankar for two or three years which is just exercises up and down the major scale before they actually start learning anything. They spend all that time just getting their pitch right. Slide guitar is like that; it's hard to get the pitch just right unless you practice the alankar for a long time.

Tom: Are you going to continue to move forward with spiritual music or get back in with the Crows? What does the future hold for you?

Matt: I'm not all that interested in a rock band anymore. It's a very blunt art form. Not to diss it or anything; a lot of the great rock records are also spiritual records. "Stairway to Heaven" is a Goddess song. I don't know if it's age or what but I'm getting more subtle. I'm reinventing myself and I'd like to give Indian music concerts on my slide guitar some day; I don't know when. I'd like to spend the rest of my life doing that.

www.mattmalley.com

An interview with Country Music's Collin Raye
By Tom Crenshaw, Tom@RockOm.net

Collin Raye grew up surrounded by powerful songs of conviction and in the shadows of legendary rock 'n' rollers and country artists. His mother was a musician in the 1950s and opened up on many occasion for the likes of Sun Records recording artists Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash and Carl Perkins. Later on in his mother's career Collin and his brother would become part of her act learning the ropes of the entertainment business at an early age.

Jump now to 2009. Collin Raye is a legend in Country music having garnered five Platinum albums, 25 Top Ten hits, and 15 No. 1 chart-toppers. Five times nominated as country music's Male Vocalist of the Year, Collin Raye has consistently used his stardom to advance social causes. Among the organizations he has supported are Boys Town, First Steps, Al-Anon, Special Olympics, Country Cares About AIDS, Catholic Relief Services, Parade of Pennies, Vanderbilt Children's Hospital, The Emily Harrison Foundation, Childhelp USA, Silent Witness National Initiative, Easter Seals and Make a Difference Day. At the 2001 Country Radio Seminar, Clint Black presented Collin Raye with the organization's Humanitarian of the Year award in recognition of his issue-oriented music and his tireless charity work.

Collin's latest release, titled Never Going Back [Time Life Records], is a mix of secular and spiritual songs that he himself is extremely proud of. Included on the album are the highlights "Mid-life Chrysler", "Without You" (a duet with Susan Ashton), "The Cross", "Only Jesus" and "She's With Me", a song Collin wrote for his granddaughter Haley who suffers from a rare and crippling neurological condition.

In this interview Collin talks about his early years in the honky-tonks, his newest songs centered on his faith and spirituality, staying positive through family struggles, and why he never tires of lending support to charitable causes.

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Tom: Do you ever miss the honky-tonks?

Collin: Oh, no, no, no. Never. I've never looked back. I look at those like a sentence; I did my time and I earned my stripes. It was a good place to cut your teeth and learn how to perform, because in those kinds of places in those days especially you weren't put on a pedestal for being in a band. If anything, you were looked down upon. You really had to learn to be thick-skinned and be able to play with enthusiasm even when no one applauded or paid attention. If they did pay attention at all it was to complain that you were too loud or not loud enough or not playing enough dance music or that kind of thing. It was very tough and I was a young man; I could never do that again today. I wouldn't have the patience for it, nor the desire.

But between that and the casinos that I did later on in Nevada, I learned how to do this for a living. So by the time I got a record deal I knew how to put on a show and perform for people. All I needed was my own music and so once I got that I was in business.

Tom: Bands coming up today don't necessarily need to do what had to be done in the past such as play in the honky-tonks. But at the same time they don't get the experience of being in front of brutally honest audiences and paying their dues. There's a benefit and a drawback there.

Collin: It's a double-edged sword because if - let's say my daughter or my son was following in my footsteps - I would not want them to do what I had to do. I'd want them to be able to win a talent show, get a couple of breaks, and 'boom' get a record deal. As someone who's done that, at the same time you feel cheated in a way. [These artists] will still talk about paying their dues and playing in one club for a year before getting a record deal. And you find out what club it is and it turns out to be one that we'd have cut off our pinkie to play in, with big sound and lights. They don't have to do what we did and it shows; you see them live and see their inexperience. But we live in a time that worships youth. Our society seems to adore anyone who does anything if they're cute and they're young, whether they really have anything to offer or whether they have one trick to offer.

For instance in the mainstream, music has become such a product. And I know technically it's always been a product but it's now looking like something you just buy off the shelves. I just wonder sometimes what rock and roll, country and mainstream pop music would have been like had it always been that way. The answer is it'd be pretty pathetic. In other words, those people who did all those creative things in the 50s, 60s and 70s would have never gotten the opportunity to do those things, set the standards so high and give us all that music we love today had record labels kept them in a choke-hold like they do now or not signed people because they're not cute or young enough.

Tom: Let me ask you about your latest album, Never Going Back which was released on your own label...

Collin: Actually, I have done some records on my own label but this one is released on Time Life. I'm really enjoying that relationship because they are not a country music label or a rock label or an anything label; they just put out music. They told me to make the album I wanted to make and they'd sell it with no interference. I had never gotten an offer like that before. And so I had no one looking over my shoulder and I made a record that is very eclectic and very much 'me.' I feel like it's more of a Christian album more than anything else. I didn't mean for that to happen but that's just where my heart is and the kind of the songs I write. To be honest with you, I feel like I've been making records like that for a long time but was always stereotyped as a country music singer no matter what I sang. For the longest time we were very blessed and lucky to be able to put out songs that carried a heavy message and make them country music hits - from "Little Rock" to "Love Me" to "In This Life" - I feel like they are spiritual songs. We treated them that way and performed them that way. But it just so happens at that time the country music audience was wide and varied enough that there was a place for those kinds of songs.

For instance, we talk about domestic violence amongst women and we look at that through the eyes of a father and how sometimes when we don't mean to be doing it in a harmful way, we degrade a woman like she's a piece of meat or something to look at. Well that's somebody's little girl, now. There were songs like that which were Top 5 Country records and I couldn't believe we got away with that. Eventually the powers-that-be decided around the turn of the millennium to get back to the good 'ol party tunes that sell beer and make Budweiser happy. That's kind of where the male artists are right now; you're either doing that or you're not doing anything. The girls, like Carrie Underwood, can get away with some cool songs sometimes but rarely do you hear a song from a male artist today on the radio that's not about pick-ups and drinking beer from a mason jar. That's not my cup of tea and never was.

So to make this long answer even longer I think what I enjoy the most is that the label doesn't consider me a country singer; they consider me a singer. My fans either don't listen to radio or listen to different types of radio such as Christian radio or AC [Adult Contemporary] radio. They feel like I'm a different type of breed and for the first time I've got a label who understands that and promotes me as such.

Tom: It seems the labels have been changing their minds regarding spiritual music. Do you think it's purely profit driven or do you feel like there's a change happening in some of the bigger labels?

Collin: I would love to believe it's a change in attitude but I've been in this business for so long and known people who run labels. When MercyMe's album and song "I Can Only Imagine" crossed over - which is a Praise and Worship album straight out of Sunday Worship - and became a #1 AC song, I think God very much blessed that effort. It was an anointed thing. It was very unique and isn't going to happen over and over. But at the same time I think record labels look at that and go, "Hey, there's people who will actually buy this Jesus Music." There could be an exception in there who are maybe trying to do something positive with their roster, but for the most part they probably see it as a chance to cash in. That's just what record labels do. They've been doing it since someone came up with the concept in the first place. And they'll continue to do it except for the labels that are specifically organized to release spiritual music.

Tom: In 2001 the Country Radio Broadcasters gave you their Artists' Humanitarian Award and you were nominated for 2008's Academy of Country Music's Humanitarian Award. You've worked with just about every organization out there who seeks to help others. What can you share with someone who may be reading or hearing this that is going through hard times and trials and might be in a position where things seem hopeless?

Collin: I guess experience. And by that I mean that I'm no different than anyone who has gone through stuff. The struggles in my career I don't even consider as significant. The struggles that count are the ones in your family and that involve your kids. In my case I've had a few, not the least of which is one we're going through right now with my little granddaughter, Haley, who's extremely ill with a neurological disorder that is crippling and (they tell us) ultimately fatal. There's helplessness that comes with that. So what I say comes straight from the horses mouth [when I work with these causes]. For years I used to support charities and children's charities, but my kids were fine. I've always had a compassionate heart and heavy conscience. But now through the course of the past few years when I offer my help or try to draw light to a certain cause or charity, people can look back and say that the Spirit's got to be with me to a certain degree, otherwise I would just sit in the corner and feel sorry for myself. I could say that we have our own problems and I'm not going to worry about people overseas or hungry and sick kids in our own country, because we have our own baby to worry about. But I can't do that.

I feel like God wants me to continue more so than ever to reach out and say, "This is what we're going through and though it's a different situation than what you're going through, we have very similar pains and feelings that we deal with day after day." We have to stick together and go shoulder-to-shoulder with other people who are suffering. And not just reach down like we did in the 80's with "We Are the World," which was a huge, wonderful project. But it was the elite in the music business who were reaching down to help the people of Africa, which is nice and raised a lot of money, but I think the Lord wants us to not reach down. He wants us to reach up or reach across and wrap our arms around each other and understand that we're all in this together.

The Lord never promised us an easy time and if we were supposed to have the ability to cruise through this life without suffering then he could have paid the price for us by dying, but not necessarily dying the way he did. He could've lived a very affluent and comfortable life up until his death. But, no. He was born in a barn and I'm sure that for a large part of his life he was a nomad and homeless. He didn't have anything of this earth. The Bible only tells us so much about his early years but you have to imagine. After all, they were very, very poor and people of the land. To live the way he did and die the way he did, there has to be a lesson in that. In other words, if life could be wonderful and perfect, there would be no need for heaven.

I feel like I have learned to embrace that more and more as time has gone by, not just because of the amount of years I've lived but because of the dire circumstances that seem to continue to grow as I get older. I'm 49 years old now and I thought by this time I'd be a fat cat, kicking back and not worrying about anything. Nothing could be further than the truth. We have more struggle, pain and fear in our lives today than I've ever had in my entire life. But here I am, I keep on smiling and I'm still positive. I still love people and love to work. I still love when people want to share their stories with me. I'm the same guy. That I credit totally to the Lord. When you have a lot of success early on, even though I was worldly appreciative of the fact that I was getting to live my dream, at the same time you start to wonder why it is I get to do this and make good money? And why is it when I go to work people stand up and applaud and other people have to bust road without any recognition whatsoever for very little money? I always hated doing autograph lines, not because I didn't want to meet the people, but because I didn't like the idea of sitting there behind a table and seeing a line an eighth of a mile long waiting to meet me like I'm the president or the pope. I'm nothing special; I'm just a musician and singer. I always felt like Santa Claus in Macy's in Miracle on 34th Street. It just didn't make any sense to me.

Now that I've gotten older and had these other experience, now I think, "Ah, God was just training me." In other words what I am doing now, he was just training me back then like I was in boot camp. People are drawn to me now for another reason. I believe they're drawn to me because of Him and they sense something in me that's of Him whether they know it or not. That's why celebrities can get so messed up and get into strange, weird behavior or drugs is because if you don't see Him and the Holy Spirit in it then you're going to start believing that it's 'you.' You start believing it's all about you and you're so great. It's been not only a saving grace for me to keep my feet on the ground but it's given me my purpose.

LINKS:

www.collinraye.com

www.operationkids.org

An interview with Airto Moreira
By Tom Crenshaw, tom@RockOm.net

Airto Moreira is one of the most endearing and influential percussionists in the world today. Born in South Brazil he began playing percussion even before he could walk. By the time he was six years old Airto had won many music contests by singing and playing percussion. He moved to Sao Paulo at the age of sixteen and performed regularly in nightclubs and television as a percussionist, drummer and singer.

In 1965 he met the singer Flora Purim in Rio de Janeiro. Flora moved to the USA in 1967 with Airto following shortly after and began playing with musicians such as Reggie Workman, JJ Johnson, Cedar Walton and bassist Walter Booker. It was through Booker that Airto began playing with the greats - Cannonball Adderley, Lee Morgan, Paul Desmond and Joe Zawinul to name a few.

Mr. Moreira's impact in the drumming world has been so powerful that Downbeat Magazine added the category of Percussion to its readers' and critics' polls in 1973 because of his work. Airto has gone on to win this award over twenty times since then. In the past few years he was been voted the number one percussionist by Jazz Times, Modern Drummer, Drum Magazine, Jazzizz Magazine, Jazz Central Station's Global Jazz Poll on the Internet, as well as in many European, Latin American and Asian publications.

Airto Moreira has been advancing the cause of world and percussion music as a member of the Planet Drum percussion ensemble alongside The Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Heart, master conga player Giovanni Hidalgo, tabla virtuoso Zakir Hussain, Flora Purim, Babatunde Olatunji, Sikiru Adepoju and Vikku Vinayakram. Airto has contributed to two Grammy Award-winning projects, the album Planet Drum, which won in 1991 in the World Music category, as well as his work with the Dizzy Gillespie's United Nations Orchestra, which received the award for Best Live Jazz Album.

In September of 2002, Brazil's President Fernando Henrique Cardoso named Airto Moreira and Flora Purim to the Order of Rio Branco, one of Brazil's highest honors. The Order of Rio Branco was created in 1963 to formally recognize Brazilian and foreign individuals who have significantly contributed to the promotion of Brazil's international relations.

Also, Airto was a professor for three years at the Ethnomusicology department of UCLA and broke new ground in musical concepts and creative energy.

Currently he divides his time between recording studios, workshops and clinics, and creating new projects as well as researching new materials for future releases and live performances in the US, Europe, Asia and Latin America.

Airto's latest album is Life After That and was released on Narada Records.

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Tom: Tell us about your parents, especially your father who was a spiritual healer. Did your father influence you musically?

Airto: No, not really. It probably has nothing to do with the music. There was no music. My parents didn't sing, dance, or play. [Laughs] My father was a spiritist. He, along with about 10 other mediums, would sit around a table and get in touch with the spirits and the spiritual world. They would talk to the spirits and solve problems for people. The medium, acting as a bridge between the spirit and material world, would talk with the spirit of the person and straighten a lot of things up because there's a lot of people who [after they die] feel good about their [past] lives, but most of us, we don’t. We feel like we wasted a lot of time in our life. We feel, "I shouldn’t have done that," or "maybe I should have done this instead of that." We keep those problems and other problems after life. When I say "after life," I mean after our material life. As spirits, we are immortals. We never die; we just spend some time around the spiritual world (which is actually right here) and is the universe. It's God's universe that he is creating. We might have to come back here to solve some problems we left and to learn to do other things and so on.

When I was about five years old I used to watch my father. We weren't supposed to watch but we watched anyway. [Laughs] I saw my father many times writing prescriptions for people. Some of the things he used to prescribe for others to take were from nature, from the forest. Other things he would write were to be taken from a pharmacy. He used to work with a spirit of a deceased doctor who had died 20 years earlier. My father was illiterate. He couldn't read or write but I saw him writing many times. Later on in his life he had diabetes and he lost his vision and was a blind man for about the last 10 years of his life. But he was completely happy! It was really beautiful to see that - the spiritual part of my family.

My sister does a lot of what my father used to do. She learned a lot from him. She is beautiful and happy as well. When others see her they say, "Wow, she is so nice!"

Now talking about death and music, I am in some ways a medium. I also make the bridge between the spiritual and material world. When I play, I do that. The musicians who play with me - including my wife, Flora [Purim] - they know when that comes on me and it's just a beautiful thing. We are helped by the spirits. The music becomes high as far as energy. It doesn't have to be a very fast kind of rhythm. Whatever we do is really rich in energy - universal energy that keeps all the planets and stars together and balanced. This energy is around us too; it's the primal energy that God uses to create the universe. The more you study the more you know. It's not a complicated thing; it's basic, really. I feel the energy when I change, when I am playing something and right at the beginning when it actually happens. I open up for whatever energy is there and then something happens; it clicks and the whole band knows. We look at each other, laugh and smile and we keep playing. It's a beautiful thing, man.

Tom: It seems you were bound for great things as a musician from early on. You had your own radio program in your home city as a preteen and then at 13 you began drumming and singing in local dance bands. Where did this drive, this passion for music come from?

Airto: I don’t know because we didn't have that many musicians in our family. My mother's side of the family was from Italy. I always loved music and I started playing some percussion instruments that my grandmother gave to me and that was it. I just kept playing. My mom gave me other percussion instruments and I just kept playing. This is what I do today; I keep doing the same thing that I use to do when I was a little kid. Now I have a lot of knowledge about different kinds of music - commercial, non-commercial, playing for money or not. Thank God I don't have to play for money. I did when I was younger but if the music wasn't good, if I didn't like it, I didn't play.

Tom: Your wife Flora moved to the USA in 1967 and you followed soon thereafter. Was that a move you intended to make no matter what or were you waiting to see what Flora discovered as far as the music scene was concerned before you decided to leave?

Airto: I had a plan, you see. I was in love with Flora. Really in love with Flora, mainly because she was a fine human being and she had a good education. She was from a family in Rio and I was from a family in South Brazil and we were very poor in our little village. When I met Flora I had never met a woman like her before. She was incredible! She was like a princess. She liked me and we started taking. It was like “Wow.” In the beginning the only thing I would talk to her about would be music. [Laughs] We used to talk a lot about music; she was a singer already. I was thinking this is something very, very special - this is incredible. I couldn’t believe it. We stayed together two years and she decided to go to the States and spend some time there, meet some people, say hello to her friends from Rio who were already there like Sivuca [Dias de Oliveira] who played accordion and was musical director for Miriam Makeba (a great African singer) and Sérgio Mendes. She told me, "I'm going to go and try and sing for a while. I'm really not sure what is going to happen." I said, "Well, I can't go right now. I’m playing with this great band, the New Quartet, and we're successful." I told her I was sorry but I couldn't go.

She went anyway, so we would write to each other. Sometimes we would talk on the phone, but we would write every day. I was so much in love with this woman that I decided to go to California, stay for a couple of weeks, and then bring her back to Brazil. So, I went - and here I am! I'm not in Brazil. [Laughs] Of course, we went back to Brazil often. I don't like the word "career" because I think music is much more than career - music is a lifetime commitment.

Tom: Who were the first musicians you met upon arriving in the states?

Airto: I met Moacir Santos, who was a master teacher from Brazil and a great arranger and tenor saxophonist. I did some gigs with him and studied with him, but not enough. I never really liked study. Unfortunately I can't read music. I started playing in LA with some Brazilian bands and then Flora was invited to go New York to sing with Miriam Makeba.  A few days after Flora went to New York, I followed her there and we lived in New York for almost nine years.

It was in New York that I met everybody. I met Cannonball Adderley and we liked each other so much, even though we didn't understand each other. I was speaking Portuguese and he was speaking English. He was our mentor and sponsor in the states and signed our working papers and told his manager, "I want Airto and Flora here legally." I started playing with Cannonball, Lee Morgan and Paul Desmond. Then everything started to happen.

Two and a half years later I met Miles Davis. I met Miles through Joe Zawinul, who was very close friends with Miles.  One day Miles said to Joe, "Joe, I’m recording this album - a new kind of music. It’s more electric. I need a percussionist that plays something different." Joe said to Miles, "Well I know somebody that I met at Walter Booker's house." Miles asked Joe what kind of person I was - if I was old, young, or what. Joe told Miles, "He's kind of young, but he has some incredible percussion instruments that no one's seen before. He plays them all, plays jazz, bossa nova, samba; he plays anything. He's able to hear something and just play it." So, I started playing with Miles and recorded Bitches Brew with him.

Tom: Did you believe Bitches Brew was going to be the phenomenon it became?

Airto: No. I knew practically nothing. It was all like a dream to me, a movie that I was in. Everything was happening and I didn't speak English. I came to understand English better soon after. The first three years was like I was on an acid trip and being in a crazy movie. It was a very strange feeling; I was not afraid at all. It was like I knew these musicians for a long time and we were just going to play some music - that was it. All the other musicians warned me about Miles and said, "Listen, Miles can be real nasty but go and play with him. He's going to like you. But never get into any kind of negative stuff with him because he likes to play with you and try and scare you." I was careful in that area. I had two and a half years with Miles. One of the greatest experiences in my life.

Tom: The sidemen on Bitches Brew were extraordinary: Wayne Shorter, Dave Holland, Jack DeJohnette, and Chick Corea.

Airto: Yeah, I played for probably a year and a half with those guys. Then Miles started changing the sound. He wanted to get into the "funk/wah-wah" thing. He loved Jimi Hendrix actually. They were going to do an album together. Gil Evans was going to write the arrangements but it never happened because Jimi died. Yeah, we used to go down to the Village in New York with Miles, into Jimi Hendrix's Electric Lady Studios and jam there. Miles would be talking with Jimi about the wah-wah pedal; He was crazy about it. He wanted to use it with the trumpet.

Tom: Following your stint with Miles Davis, you jumped right into Weather Report with Wayne Shorter, Joe Zawinul, Miroslav Vitous and Alphonse Mouzon.

Airto: Actually it was during my time with Miles. I was still playing with Miles when Joe Zawinul invited me to form the band. Joe said, "This is going to be the best group in the world. You’re going to play with us." But I told him, "I'm still playing with Miles. Some people are leaving the band and I think Miles needs me." Joe said, "No, Miles doesn't need anybody. Come and play with us." It wasn't that I was skeptical about Weather Report, I just didn't want to leave Miles' band. I wanted to go into that change with him and give him my sounds and soul. I never went on the road with Weather Report. I recorded with them and I played one concert at CBS for the release of our first album on CBS Records. I told Joe after that concert that I was not going to leave Miles.

Tom: In our interview with your wife, Flora gave us her thoughts of Chick Corea and Return to Forever. I want to hear from you about your experience with Chick and Return To Forever. You all pretty much made history in this band.

Airto: Chick had a drummer before me. But he asked Flora to ask me to come in on the next rehearsal they had so I could show some patterns to his drummer and I said, "Sure." I met them all, met the drummer and showed him some stuff. The drummer asked me to take a break with him, go next door to a bar and have a drink. When we got next door he said to me, "Do you want to play this gig with Chick?" I said, "Yeah, I want to play drums for Chick but you're already playing with him." "I’m a jazz drummer; I don’t want to play this gig," he said. I told him, "Well, we have to talk with Chick because he never really invited me to play with him." So we went back to the practice and the drummer said to Chick, "Chick, Airto and I were just talking and you've got a new drummer." [Laughs]

Tom: When we interviewed Mickey Hart and spoke with him about the Planet Drum album and his intention in recording it he said he realized on day he was "sitting on top of the mountain" with regards to his percussion friends. You and Flora joined him on the Planet Drum album and were in fact co-producers, along with the other musicians performing on the album. What are your thoughts on how this all came to be?

Airto: Flora and I met Mickey Hart with the Grateful Dead. We went to see the Dead one time at the Oakland Coliseum just to see what everyone was talking about with this band. That was some "down to earth" music: singing, playing and tripping. It was a big party with thousands of people! Flora and I went backstage after the concert and they were like, "Oh, Airto and Flora!" They invited us to perform with them the next two nights, to jam with them. Ornette Coleman was sitting in with them, playing this crazy stuff on saxophone. Flora picked up a microphone and started singing with Ornette Coleman, doing free-form stuff, really beautiful stuff. That's how we met Mickey. Mickey then called me and Flora to play on the Apocalypse Now soundtrack and we worked in the Dead’s studio in Marin County for six days and nights straight.

Tom: Was this the first time you had worked with Zakir Hussain?

Airto: Yes. [Pause] Maybe I played with him in the Rhythm Devils. I wasn't a part of that group; I just sat in with them. Apocalypse Now was the first time we collaborated and it was just beautiful. Zakir is one of the most incredible players on earth.

Tom: We agree, but I must add that when we spoke with Zakir Hussain last year in San Anselmo one of the first things he spoke about was Bitches Brew and how that was so inspirational to him and everyone, and how it changed everything. He was taken with your work as well.

Airto: Zakir told me he was a classical percussionist playing classical Hindu music, and that's what he did. Then he saw me play with Miles Davis and said, "Wow, I can do that too. I can play some other stuff." Zakir can do anything, really. He's an incredible musician. Then Zakir started opening up, playing with different people. He's one of the most respected musicians in the world.

Tom: Tell me about your album The Other Side of This, from 1988. It was an exploration into the healing powers of music and the spiritual world.

Airto: I always have ideas for sound. I have a lot of ideas for things I haven't played yet. I am young; I'm only 67. [Laughs] Some of the sounds I had been thinking about for many years were sounds for healing, for relaxing and for energy. I never really thought of myself as a shaman to be working with spirits. Spirits are free to come and visit when I am playing and each day when I jump in, they are welcome.

One day when were working on Planet Drum with Mickey and all the great percussionists who performed on that album I said to Mickey, "Remember that project that we talked about of co-producing, that healing music album?" He was about to head out of town and said, "Why don't you start it while I'm gone." So, I stayed in the studio and did about half of the album in five days. When Mickey returned we began rehearsing Planet Drum again and he asked, "Well what have you been doing while I've been gone?" So I had the engineer play the recordings in the studio and Mickey said, "What? What is this?" I said, "That's our project that you are producing." [Laughs] He said, "Oh, you bet I am! Let's keep working on this!" So we would rehearse Planet Drum in the day and then work on The Other Side of This until the early mornings.

Tom: How do you see music and especially percussion evolving in the near future?

Airto: Percussion was probably the first ever instrument. People would play and not even know they were making music. I think it is always going to be a part of humanity. Right now there's a lot of synthesized music and percussion, but at the same time there are percussionists and drummers such as Mickey Hart, Zakir Hussain, myself and others who are playing all over the world. There is space for acoustic percussion, for the real thing. It will never die. I think that percussion will always grow together with the music. It doesn't matter what kind of music it is because the percussion will always be there. Percussion evolves with the music and with the human race. One doesn't need to be a professional - you can go and play some with the guys and it's OK. Percussion started the music, in the beginning. Percussion is a beautiful exchange, a melting pot. It will always exist and if they keep sampling, they're going to be sampling forever.

LINKS: www.airto.com

An Interview with Brazilian Jazz legend Flora Purim
By Tom Crenshaw, tom@rockom.net

For those who know Flora, an introduction is unnecessary. Her music has interwoven the life fabric of anyone with a passing interest in Latin and American jazz music for over 25 years.

Flora's once-in-a-generation six-octave voice has earned her two Grammy nominations for Best Female Jazz Performance and Downbeat Magazine's Best Female Singer accolade on four occasions. Her musical partners have included Gil Evans, Stan Getz, Chick Corea, Dizzy Gillespie and her husband Airto Moreira, with whom she has collaborated on over 30 albums since moving with him from her native Rio to New York in 1967. In New York, she and Airto became central to the period of musical expression and creativity which produced the first commercially successful electric jazz groups of the 70s.

Shortly after, Flora became instrumental in opening the world up to new notions of what jazz can sound like by linking up with Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke and Joe Farrell to form Return To Forever in late 1971. She went on to contribute to some of the greatest recordings of the seventies - Carlos Santana, Hermeto Pascoal, Gil Evans, Chick Corea and Mickey Hart - with all benefiting from her vocal and arranging skills. In the mid-Eighties, Flora and Airto resumed their musical partnership to record two albums for Concord - Humble People and The Magicians - for which she received Grammy nominations. In 1992 she went one better by singing on two Grammy-winning albums - Planet Drum with Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart (Best World Music Album) and the Dizzy Gillespie United Nations Orchestra (Best Jazz Album).

In September of 2002, Brazil's President Fernando Henrique Cardoso named Flora Purim and Airto Moreira to the "Order of Rio Branco", one of Brazil's highest honors. Her latest album, Flora's Song, was released by Narada Records on June 28th, 2005.

RockOm had the honor and privilege to spend an extended period of time with Flora Purim recently while she was in Lisbon, Portugal touring with her husband. In this in-depth interview Flora Purim speaks with us regarding her early years in America, her close association with the greats in jazz music, how music transcends race, creed, and culture and an upcoming movie and book based on her life and career.

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Tom:  Tell us what you, your family and friends felt on that March evening in 1964 when the Brazilian military staged a coup overthrowing President Goulart sending Brazil into a totalitarian regime. There was widespread systematic repression of artistic freedom and free speech. Did this play a role in your decision to become an artist and do you ever regret leaving Brazil for America?

Flora:  Sure I regret leaving Brazil because it is a paradise and the outpouring of Brazilian music is so big that wherever I go, all over the world there is always a group playing Brazilian music. I am very proud to be Brazilian, but Brazil was a military dictatorship and the Government was censoring the lyrics of music and songs. I was only 20 years old and in the beginning of my career then. I felt if I didn’t leave the country I couldn't be a singer. I made the decision and since I loved jazz, I decided to go to the USA.

Tom:  When you arrived in New York City in 1967, you immediately jumped into the American jazz scene with the artists of the day such as Thelonious Monk and Miles Davis. Then a few short years later you met Chick Corea, Stan Getz, Gil Evans, Stanley Clarke, Joe Farrell and others. What did you think when you landed in New York and were able to be yourself and express yourself in the midst of such an eclectic music scene?

Flora: I thought I had died and was in paradise. I didn't know how I was going to find other musicians. I asked around at the hotel where I was staying in New York and was told I shouldn't be going into the heart of Harlem because I was white and it was a dangerous place to go. I said, "Well I come from Brazil and we don't discriminate, so I'm going to take my chance. I must go to Harlem; I have to go." So the concierge wrote an address on a piece of paper and I was dropped off at Club Baron.

I tried to pay my ticket to get in but the doorman started to speak to me and I didn't understand what he was saying. He was laughing, making jokes and wasn't going to sell me a ticket. The only thing I understood was that he called me Snow White. In the meantime, a very tall man was standing in the entranceway going from one side of the bar to the other. He saw the scene, reprimanded the man and he gave me his big hand and told me not to be afraid and to sit down with his lady. He invited me inside and I sat down with a white lady. She was very popular inside of the club. Everyone was arriving and kissing her hand and kissing her on the cheek. Later on, I found out she was a famous Baroness - Baroness Nika. She used to help Coltrane and Charlie Parker when they got sick. She was so loved by everyone because she had no prejudice and loved jazz to the point that she would offer space in her house when musicians got sick from time to time.

Then, when I finally sat down and felt more at ease I looked over at the bar and saw Wayne Shorter sitting there along with Art Blakey, Carmen McRae, Richard Davis, and Mongo Santamaria. I saw the creme of the creme all together in the same place. After Mongo Santamaria played his set - in which Chick Corea was the pianist - the second band came in. I didn't know what Thelonious Monk looked like. He was the guy that helped me get into the club. He walked on stage, sat down at the piano and played. I realized I was the luckiest person in the world. The second day in town I found the place where everyone converged after their gigs, talked with each other and jammed. Afterward, we all went to the house of bass player Walter Booker and played more until the early morning.

Tom: Tell me about the events leading up to meeting Chick Corea and later becoming a part of his fusion band Return to Forever.

Flora: I arrived in the US in December of '67, stayed in New York and later I got a call from an ex-boyfriend, Dom Um Romao, who  went on to perform with Weather Report and he said, "Come to California." So I flew out to California and stayed for about six months. I didn't have a work permit but I was going to the clubs. I saw Miles Davis for the first time along with Gary Barton and several of the young, up-and-coming musicians. Gary Barton was only 16 or 17 years old and he was playing free form jazz. A month afterward, my husband Airto (Moreira) arrived. We both went to see Miles Davis together. It was a dream for Airto.  Something happened to him when he first saw Miles.

I received an invitation from the drummer who was performing with South African singer Miriam Makeba who was singing Brazilian music. She had a choir behind her of three or four girls trying to sing in Portuguese. I went back to New York and was hired by Miriam Makeba to be a backup singer and help the girls learn to pronounce the lyrics correctly. Afterward, I sang two concerts with Miriam and she called me up and said, "You are too good to be just a background singer. I’m going to give you the name of my manager. Please look him up. I’m calling him to say I’m sending  you." Miriam's manger took me in and got me a record deal. I signed with the label that was owned by the comedian Bill Cosby. After the record was recorded and was about to be pressed and released the warehouse caught fire. My work was burned and that record never came out. It was a shock. I thought to myself, "It is not my time yet."

I stayed in New York and continued hanging out at the clubs. In the Village there were a lot of jazz clubs with great musicians and I always managed to get in for free.  I met Chick Corea then. At that time, Chick was playing for Miles Davis and Miles was looking to change the band. Joe Zawinul told Miles there was a Brazilian percussionist who was crazy and that he should check him out. Airto then received a call from Miles' manager. I'll let Airto tell you the rest in his own words and then I’ll tell you how it really was. [Laughs]

Later Chick decided to leave Miles and form a group with Dave Holland, Anthony Blackstone, and Barry Altschul [the group Circle]. They were just playing free form and Chick wanted his music to be more popular. He said that people loved the music but it was hard to duplicate the melodies they heard. He became obsessed to have his music sung and duplicated. He was looking for a person to sing his melodies, because if a person could sing melodies the public would understand that they could sing it too. He offered the music to Ella Fitzgerald and several others vocalists. The vocalists returned the music saying they were already well established on the Bebop jazz scene and didn’t want to take a risk of singing fusion because the music was not mainstream. It was fused with different rhythms.

I met Chick at Walter Booker's apartment after a concert. He asked me to come to his home and try some of his music because he was dying to hear someone sing some of his melodies. I said, "Yes, of course." The next day I went to Chick’s home and the first song he played for me was "What Game Shall We Play Today", and then others. I was overwhelmed with the beauty of the music and couldn’t believe I was having a chance to hear it first hand. So he asked me if I would like to sing those songs with him and to be part of the group that he was forming. He met a very young bass player just out of high School who was 17 years old. His name was Stanley Clarke. He invited flutist-saxophonist  Joe Farrell to join as well. Chick asked me to ask Airto to sit in until he found a drummer so we could keep rehearsing. Airto wasn't doing anything since Miles was taking a break, so I brought Airto in and Chick loved him so much that he decided not to look for another drummer.

"Music has no prejudices. Music does not ask you what color you are, where you come from or what your creed is. Music itself becomes God to us whenever we play it."

It was like magic. Sometimes you put five musicians together and they are great, but the magic doesn't happen. But this time it all melded together and became one. We were very excited to be playing and singing original music written especially for us. From that point on Chick wrote more and more and the music aimed at my voice or Stanley’s bass or Airto’s drumming or Joe Farrell’s flute and saxophone. The first album was called Return to Forever and the second was called Light as a Feather, which happens to contain a composition by Stanley Clark and me.

These two albums defined Return To Forever and in America we were not sure if they accepted us or not. But when we arrived in Japan or anywhere else around the world we were so famous we need a police escort. So many people were waiting at the airports screaming and giving us gifts. From that point on I understood there were certain prejudices and maybe the musicians that were dedicated to swing, mainstream, and Bebop were guardians of that style of music, which prevailed at the time. They were not giving in even if our music was nice. The rest of the world embraced Chick’s music. Some first started listening to jazz after Return To Forever and then started looking for other records that we were involved in as well and learning more and more about the other forms of jazz. You were right about one thing - because of my association with Chick Corea I became very, very popular all over the world.

Tom: In 1973 you released your first solo album, Butterfly Dreams, and went on to work with Carlos Santana on his album Welcome (1973) which also featured John McLaughlin, Tom Coster, Leon Thomas and John Coltrane's widow, Alice. Tell us about the vibe in the air working on that album.

Flora: Well Carlos was incredible. We were playing at the Keystone Korner in San Francisco and one night Carlos walked in for the second show. I saw him come in but I had never met him before. After the show he said he was recording that night and invited us to come to Columbia Studios. He played some of the songs for us and asked if we could do something to enhance the songs. He offered me two songs and Airto worked on another two or three songs. The next week he had a concert at the Museum of Modern Art and I sat in with the band. A very famous writer Ralph Gleason wrote a review of the show and said I was great and raved about me. The next day I got a call from Fantasy Records and they invited me to sign a contract with them.

Tom: You were involved as a co-producer along with Mickey Hart and your husband Airto on the 1992 Grammy Award winning Planet Drum album. In speaking with Mickey Hart and Zakir Hussain they both spoke about the spiritual nature and healing qualities in music. Do you feel the same way? Does rhythm and music have unifying and healing properties?

Flora: I would say yes. When Mickey Hart’s wife was about to have a baby and was in labor for hours nothing would help. Mickey put on a track from Planet Drum and she relaxed and gave birth right away. I also learned from Babatunji Olantundi that drums are not made from just any tree. In Nigeria, to cut the tree to make a drum you have to talk to that tree for months and get an affinity and have the tree recognize you - even tell stories to the tree. You and the tree become friends. So when the time comes to make a drum from that tree, the tree is ready and understands it’s not going to stop "being nature", that it would actually be helping the world to know that the first language between men was drumming.

Tom: Through your close friendship with Dizzy Gillespie, who was a devotee of the Bahá'í faith, you came to adopt that faith. How has Bahá'í influence you?

Flora: Bahá'í was a young religion when I met Dizzy. Dizzy used to carry his praying book, which was different than everyone else's.  All the pages were embossed in gold and his name was written on the front in gold. I used to sit next to him in first class, so once I asked him, "You are always reading this book. What is so good about it." He said, "This book is my Bible and I know every single prayer by memory."  I challenged him and he said, "OK, I’ll give you the book and you can open it to any page and ask me." I took the book, opened it to one page, and by chance it was the Prayer of the Traveler. He said, "Which one out of the five?" I chose, thinking it would be difficult for him. He recited the prayer fluently. I thought  to myself "He’s lucky, the Prayer of the Traveler is one he must read most often." I opened up another page, I challenged him again, and he recited the prayer perfectly. He read that book for 30 years every day. He read to remind himself that men should help other men, that a universal language should be created so that people could communicate and that women should be treated equal to men.

I told Dizzy, "I want to be a Bahá'í." He said, "You can’t be a Bahá'í yet." I asked him why. He said, "Before you decide you want to be a Bahá'í you have to read a couple of books to see if you agree with it." I was given several books to read, loved them and said, "I still want to be a Bahá'í." So we were leaving Australia and the family that was receiving all the Bahá'í in the town ran to the airport and gave me the book of prayers, just like Dizzy's book. Inside of the book was an Australian ten-dollar bill. I said, "Wait, I think you forgot the money." The lady who gave me the book said, "No we, didn't forget. You always keep this note inside of the book because this is to bring you more money and it could save you in a difficult situation." I kept it and never spent that money.

Tom: Sometimes music brings people together in ways that nothing else can. What is it about music that bridges barriers and put us in touch with that which we call the Divine?

Flora: Music has no prejudices. Music does not ask you what color you are, where you come from or what your creed is. Music itself becomes God to us whenever we play it. As musicians we only communicate through notes and rhythms. We hardly talk with each other unless it's to give a new idea for direction. At the time we are playing it doesn't count what color you are, where you come from, or which religion you practice. I love that.

Tom: What does the future hold for you?

Flora: I have lots of work ahead of me. I've been in Portugal working with a screenwriter and with another writer to do a book of my trials and tribulations along with a film based on a Brazilian singer who wanted to sing Jazz. This project is very big, is sponsored by the Brazilian Government, and is entitled "Brazilian Flora". I am singing all Brazilian music by Brazilian musicians. Because of my popularity around the world I can bring the new Brazilian music to the rest of the world as long as I keep singing.

www.florapurim.com

Watch for an interview with Flora's husband, Airto Moreira, next week right here at RockOm.

An Interview with Nutone artist Donna De Lory
By Trevor Harden, Trevor@RockOm.net

Donna De Lory's latest album Sanctuary (out now on Nutone Music) is by and large a mantra-based chant album, using ancient Sanskrit devotional prayers alongside original lyrics, all set to a beautiful and meditative East-meets-West instrumentation. Through her heartfelt, gentle and breathy vocal delivery, Donna's singing wraps the listener in a nurturing love and encourages a sense of devotion and transcendence.

Donna has not always been focused on yogic music, however. Her past pop career had her singing vocals on albums by Santana, Carly Simon and Jewel to mention a few. Most famously, Donna was known as one of Madonna's main live accompanying vocalists for nearly 20 years.

In this interview, Donna De Lory shares with RockOm about the title track from her album Sanctuary, how conscious intention transforms music into a healing force, Joseph Campbell's influence on her life and work, and what being open to the Divine Mother has taught her about God.

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Trevor: I'm not an overly emotional guy but I found that upon listening to your album for the first time, as the beautiful first track rolled over into your song "Sanctuary" - and I heard how you took this old Christian folksy worship song that I grew up with and brought it into a meditative and spiritual arena - I just got kind of choked up. What is your history with the song "Sanctuary"? Is it something you came upon recently or did you have a church background that introduced you to the song?

Donna: Not really. Growing up my family was Christian-Catholic and mom is actually a recovering Catholic. She was wanting to be a nun when she was young and grew up in Catholic schools and then kind of rebelled against that. So when I was a kid I always wanted to go to church and I went with my friends to different churches or with my Jewish friends to their temple. Not that I was trying to find the place for me, but I just liked the sense of community and the devotion that you felt in that environment. I moved to Nashville when I was eighteen and I went to church there and started on my spiritual path at that time. I probably did hear the song "Sanctuary" in the church but more recently I heard it on a friend's CD.

I heard the words "with thanksgiving I'll be a living sanctuary for you" and sometimes I'll hear words that someone else wrote that really ring true, something I would write. The actual song goes on for many more verses but I didn't resonate so much with the other words. I felt like all I really wanted to say was this over and over again. And that's something I love about the mantras where you take something very simple - either the names of God or a phrase like "I am divine love" - and you sing it over and over again. I love what I've learned about mantra-based music and how I can apply that to other songs whether it's "Amazing Grace", my song "Sky is Open", "May God's Love Be with You Always" or "Sanctuary."

It's beautiful to say something that can resonate with people but not engage them too much. Music is a tool for opening and when you study the history of music I believe that was the original intent of music - to open people up, to heal and to move people. Coming from a really commercial pop background, I now look at music this way and set intentions for the music that I make. I want to have this be my gift for other people to help them. Consider what Mother Teresa did or Amma, people who are giving, giving, giving. I feel like my music is my small piece of what I can do. That song, "Sanctuary", for me reminds me of that. People come up to me all the time and say, "Please don't stop doing this. I know it's hard, you've got your family and other things, but please keep doing this."

Trevor: When we spoke with one of your label-mates and friends David Newman, he shared about the yogic use of sound as a path for healing. So that's what you're talking about here, right? That music has a healing power?

Donna: When you have that conscious intention it absolutely has a healing power. I was doing an interview a couple of weeks ago and someone mentioned a man's name, a healer, and wanted to know if I knew of him. I said, "No, I don't know this person." They said, "He exclusively uses your music to heal people. The vibrations and the frequencies in your music really help and he has a lot of experience with that." It was beautiful to hear that and I thought, "Of course!" I've personally been there with people when they've transitioned and left the body as music played or people will play my music when there's a baby being born. I hear stories like this and that is what music can be used for - these deep, deep meaningful experiences in our lives. And it's beautiful because when you use music in this way you can go back by playing this music again to that place. It's a tool to take you back to that moment again.

Trevor: In the album's liner notes you spoke to how Joseph Campbell was an inspiration for you. What did his work mean to your spiritual journey?

Donna: Wow, it was just his overall view of mythology and man's quest and incredible awe for this higher power. This is what he dedicated his life to study and in going back to see cave drawings and all the art. It's basically this yearning to know God, a connection to nature, and that we're all connected. We need to get back to that place, obviously, because what we're doing with the planet and each other is not respectful. Because of the damage that has been done it's especially time to wake up and to realize these things, that we're all really connected.

Plus he just gives you so much information you can go out and learn about. I first learned Sanskrit from watching him and hearing his talks. He talked about Sanskrit as the great spiritual language of the world because of how old it is and the intention put into it. I went further into studying yoga and began hearing the words again and started putting these mantras and words into my songs. I've always been on and interested in a spiritual path, whether that was studying Joseph Campbell or Yogananda or something from the Christian tradition - wherever I was.

Now it's yoga and everyone's coming together to help themselves and other people through yoga. I love yogis because they're generous and help other people. As far as the physical practice of yoga in our country is concerned, I think it's great if there's a yoga center on every corner because it's just going to make people be more compassionate and have some of this intention. It's OK even if it's just "Namaste" at the end of a class, at least you're bowing to some thing that's greater than yourself and I think we need that.

Trevor: On a personal, non-musical note, I see that you have two children. Everyone agrees that children become like our gurus as they have so much to teach us. What are they teaching you right now?

Donna: You don't know love until you have children; every day I'm being taught something. I'm learning just "being" and not having to "do" all the time - just being in that moment. I'm really feeling time passing quickly now so I'm trying to hold on to these moments. Even when I look back to pictures of my 6-year old daughter when she was a baby, I don't even remember! It's going by so fast. I say to my husband, "Did you take more pictures? Did you get the movie of them?" I'm realizing this is the good stuff, the stuff of life.

It's the interesting thing about life, as you go you realize what's really important. With all those years that I spent striving for something in my career and all those desires, now I'm trying to just "be" instead of wanting so much all the time. I'm just so grateful I'm right here.

Trevor: Speaking of mothers, the culture in which we live here in the West has a very masculine view of God overall. You have "Jai Ma" on your album and so what do you think we're missing in our understanding by only having a Father figure or more specifically what has being open to the Divine Mother meant to your journey?

Donna: I think we're missing the nurturing aspects of the divine. I was watching a video of Amma and they were asking her, "Why do you think people love what you're doing so much, just coming and getting a hug?" She was saying that if she can make both men and women feel more of that nurturing Mother energy, that's what she wants to do. Her hugs are opening those people up. I guess with my music, I want to do that same thing. And by me being a mother now I'm starting to understand it and have more of that to share in my lyrics and music. Since I had my daughter who is six, "He Ma Durga" has been my theme song or mantra. It was really powerful for me and for other people too. When I sing it, people are holding themselves and being compassionate toward themselves.

That's what's missing; we don't have that kind of nurturing support to love ourselves, or know God is the ultimate lover who loves and holds you. And that is what Amma is doing; she's loving everyone. Anyone who comes up there for a hug, she gives them the same amount of love. Whether you're a celebrity or the poor and dying, it's that ultimate love. Also Mother Earth gives us that all the time and we don't see it, though some people do. She's giving us that and we keep doing what we do with the earth and not being conscious, and the Mother's still there giving me another chance to have a child and this life and creation.

I think I'll always sing those mantras because it's so important to me. When I think of doing another mantra CD I think, "I have to keep singing Mother." I just worked on a compilation CD that is specifically made for doctors giving this music to their patients. On it I basically just sing, "Mother, Mother," in English, Spanish and Italian. Sometimes just saying the words "mother" is so beautiful. If we can say these mantras and get out of our heads about our own mothers, but instead recognize that nurturing love that is there for all of us, then we can really feel it. Everyone feels it inside somewhere so I love that music can bring that more to people. At my shows I love when it's exciting and people are dancing, but the most powerful thing is when you get people to open, whether they're crying or want to go give someone a big hug. After I play my music, that's how I feel; I feel like my heart is so much more open.

LINKS:

DonnaDeLory.com

Donna on Nutone Music