RockOm

An interview with John Cooper of Skillet on the band's album Awake
By Trevor Harden, trevor@RockOm.net

"Who's gonna fight for the weak? Who's gonna make 'em believe?
I've got a hero, I've got a hero, livin' in me." (Skillet, "Hero")

Multiple Grammy-nominated Christian rock band Skillet has been pumping out epic hard rock albums since 1996. The group's eighth album, Awake (Atlantic Records), was released on August 25th, 2009 and features twelve new tracks that span from driving, symphonic industrial rock to introspective, worshipful ballads and back again.

Skillet has gone through a few line-up changes over the last 13 years and is currently a four-piece band featuring John Cooper on lead vocals and bass, John's wife Korey on keys/guitar/vocals, Ben Kasica on guitar and Jen Ledger on drums/vocals.

In this exclusive interview, frontman John Cooper shares with RockOm about hope, faith, battling negativity, songs from the new album, reaching out to a mainstream audience and even G.I. Joe.

RockOm: Your new album Awake is amazing and it sounds fantastic too. How was producer Howard Benson's influence different than past producers you've worked with?

John Cooper: It was different, actually. All these producers have their own little ways of doing things and the way Howard was different is that he's very uncontrolling. This was a very big surprise to me, because I had heard from a lot of other people that he seems to want it his way - but that wasn't my experience. He was very cool about letting us do what makes us Skillet which are things like using keyboards, string arrangements and the guy/girl vocal. He didn't really care about all that stuff, all he wanted to do was help me get the right songs. I wrote over 40 songs for the record - everything from rock to pop to techno, all these different styles of music. I have no idea when I've written something good or when I've written something really bad so I was looking for a producer whom I could trust his opinion. That's what I got with Howard. I came in and said, "Here are the songs, I don't care [which you choose], I just want to make a good record." I specifically remember showing him a song that I thought was probably one of the best. I had just met him thirty minutes before I played him the song and he says, "You know what? I gotta be honest. That song sounds like a way to NOT sell records to me." [laughs] I thought it might be the second single or something and he was like, "No, that's definitely not a single." I also think that he liked working with me because I've been doing this a long time and I wasn't looking to argue with him; I just wanted to know what he thought. I'm open for anything, so if he didn't like something, he'd tell me and I'd say, "Ok, let's move on." I think he's used to people holding on to things. Because of all this, I think we were a pretty good partnership.

RO: Several of the songs on the album - such as "Hero” and "Awake and Alive" - speak to the weight of everyday life... of stress, depression, oppression and injustice. How would you say your faith helps you deal with or combat that negativity and hopelessness when it comes at you?

John: Yeah, that's the only thing that gives me hope because you look around the world and things seem to be getting worse. I don't know if things are actually getting worse or if we're just becoming more aware of how bad it is. Maybe press is just [more prevalent] than it used to be. I've got two kids of my own, who we're forced to homeschool because we're on the road, but I'm a little scared to send my kids to school. And not just scared because of school shootings but just in terms of the influence. Do I want the biggest influence in my daughter's life to be Paris Hilton in the next three years? She's six years old and by the time you're nine or ten, that's all you want to do is be like everyone at school. It scares me to death. And I'm not specifically trying to bash Paris Hilton, but I certainly don't mind saying that I don't want her being my daughter's biggest influence.

It's a scary time and the only thing I look at and say that is going to give us hope and get us through is my faith. It's the only thing that makes me say there has to be a better and bigger purpose in this life than just killing and hating each other, racial issues, money and greed. If we're going to make a difference in the human race, then I've got to make a difference as a person. It's kind of like a Michael Jackson "Man in the Mirror" thing. [laughs]

RO: To follow up on that a little, in the song "Monster" you talk about the shadow side of yourself, those negative attitudes and behaviors and how you keep it caged up or at bay so that it doesn't devour you. In what practical ways do you practice that? What do you see is the best way to not allow the "monster" to take over?

John: As clinical as this may sound, it's just being aware of it. It's kind of like the G.I. Joe's slogan "Knowing is half the battle." (Which, I don't know if you've seen it, but you don't need to waste your time with the movie. It was painful. It was way worse than I thought it would be, dude!) But it is true, just being aware that you've got to keep this thing at bay is how you deal with it. I have this friend that just says the most outlandish, rude things. I've never heard anyone say things like this - and he has no idea he's such a buttwipe, right? I'm like, "Dude, you have to control yourself." If he just knew how idiotic it was, clearly he wouldn't say those things. So for me, I just have to be aware of when my buttons get pushed and I need to take a deep breath and ask God to help me. It really happens when your kids tick you off. Obviously you love your kids and you don't want to be mean but something just happens. You're thinking, "I've got to pay bills, cut the grass, do all this stuff and you won't do the one thing that I ask you to do?" It makes you want to freak out.

RO: In the song "Sometimes," you sing "sometimes I don't want to be better" and "sometimes I don't deny that everything is wrong." I find this an amazingly honest song because we all certainly feel this way. But sometimes in order to fool ourselves and the people around us, we just pretend like everything's OK when it's not. Was this a cathartic song for you, considering you mostly write hopeful and uplifting lyrics?

John: I would say it's the most negative, darkest song we've ever written. I don't want a whole record like that because I've always wanted my music to be hopeful but it was another kind of therapeutic thing. Just talking about this and being honest about it makes me feel a little better and it makes other people read it and say, "It's good to know that other people feel like crap sometimes." [laughs] It makes you feel normal, you know? This isn't necessarily THE message I want to get out in my music but I think it helps people to know that I'm a genuinely happy person and I enjoy life and yet there are [tough] times. There's that line, "Sometimes I'd rather die than admit it's my fault." That sounds like me! So, yes, it was cathartic in that way. The strange thing is that we did a pre-release where you could listen to the record online before it comes out and I've already seen a lot of MySpace comments that somehow the song just made them feel good. That seems impossible, but somehow it's working that way. In a strange way, some of Trent Reznor's (Nine Inch Nails) stuff is like that. I always thought it was really dark, but people say, "This makes me feel good and helps me deal." That makes a little bit more sense to me now that I'm older.

RO: One of my personal favorite songs on Awake, "One Day Too Late", speaks to living "on purpose", rather than drifting through life, and making the most of today. I know I certainly ask myself those kinds of questions daily - maybe to an almost obsessive level. Do you feel like Skillet and the music you're writing and performing is part of your bigger purpose, your mission? Does it feel like you're doing what you're supposed to be doing with Skillet?

Jon: It does, yeah. You know, I'm glad you mentioned that song because it's one of my favorites on the record too. I could see some people maybe thinking it's a little "Hallmark Card-ish," but I find it to be a genuinely moving song. Again, I think it's one you understand more as you get older. All the sudden you realize, I'm not 15 and life is moving by. We get so busy doing all the crap we've got do all the time - work, bills, cutting the grass - and it gets to the end of the year and you think, "My gosh, is it another year? I didn't get to spend the time with my kids or wife the way I wanted or do the things I wanted." All that to say, when I look at what I really want to do, my music and the messages that I have in my music are definitely a big part of what I feel is my calling. I get thousands of comments, messages and emails from people about how the songs help them and truthfully that's one of the reasons why I do want to have a hopeful record. Even sometimes if it feels like I'm being a bit idealistic, there's a lot people who have been listening to negative music for a really long time and so when they hear a song like "One Day Too Late," it seems to be a very refreshing change.

RO: Skillet's about to embark on a huge national tour in support of Awake. What are you looking forward to or most excited about in bringing these new songs to live audiences?

Jon: One of the things I'm excited about is that our single "Monster" is out on mainstream rock radio now. I think we're reaching a new audience and the song seems to be moving rather rapidly. So one of the things I'm most excited about is seeing new fans. When new people come to the show, there's a new excitement because we're a really energetic live band and you just feel that honeymoon period with new fans. Playing new songs is great and I'm looking forward to that but playing to new fans is the thing that's got me the most excited.

LINKS: www.skillet.com

During the first few seconds of Nina Simone's version of Bob Dylan's "I Shall Be Released," she stops the band and chides them saying,

"You're pushing it, you're pushing it. Just relax, you're pushing it. Don't play anything unless you feel it."

And she has a tone in her voice that suggests that she really means it. Hearing this again recently, I was struck by the authenticity in her tone and words which left me meditating on two separate, but related, trains of thought.

First, a rant. Call me old fashioned, but there is a distinct lack of waiting until one "feels it" in much of modern music. With Protools being able to clean up a song's inconsistencies (also known as "character"), line up bad timing and make quite literally anyone a singer (thanks to the glories of auto-tune), there's very little actual, gut-busting, soul-rich feeling recorded anymore (at least in what is regarded as popular music). Of course I'm not alone in this critique. Songwriter Ben Folds sang about it in his usual tongue-of-cheek fashion in "Rockin' the Subburbs" with the line: "'Till some producer with computers fixes all my shitty tracks." And The White Stripes and other bands are making it a point to make analog recordings in order to avoid such pitfalls.

I say this somewhat hypocritically, as an album I personally recorded was very much doctored up - not to an abnormally large degree, but in that average, modern way. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, per se, rather that true and real talent and passionate feeling are not necessary any more on a base level for one to be considered a musical artist. And yet... and yet... speaking for myself, my soul longs for real, honest emotion in the music I'm listening to. It's the reason lately I've been listening to old Buddy Guy albums and R&B/Soul classics, allowing myself to be enveloped by the feeling and passion in those performances.  There was no "fixing" those tracks - those were raw takes by some amazingly talented individuals.

Perhaps we will return to a time where artists wait until they feel it. Perhaps we will return to a time where producers and engineers make a performer do a take 300 times until they get it with soul - rather than use the third take and tweak it digitally. But I digress.

[rant ended]

Nina's plea also speaks to an attitude of life - a way of being - that follows intuition, a higher power, God, the inner compass (whatever you want to call it) rather than the ego's desire to push through with its own way. As yoga teachers and body workers have warned us, we're wreaking havoc on our bodies by pushing so hard. And further still, what true lasting joy is there in living (or being around people who are) wound up to the point where, as Ferris Bueller put it, "if you stuck a lump of coal in your ass, in two weeks you would have a diamond"? I say this not in a judgmental fashion; in reality, I'm speaking to myself here, folks.

Today, as we find ourselves struggling, as we feel the stress pile on en masse, when we notice the exorbitant amount of tension we're carrying in our bodies, or when we find ourselves bullheadedly pushing through from a place of arbitrary certitude rather than from feeling, inspiration or intuition - perhaps we could be encouraged by Nina's gentle, but stern, words:

"You're pushing it, you're pushing it. Just relax, you're pushing it. Don't [do] anything unless you feel it."

By Trevor Harden, trevor@rockom.net

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